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Also, what is basic will vary from user to user. Grouping functionality by task in a way that would be simple to navigate would probably be a good start, thoug

Also, what is basic will vary from user to user. Grouping functionality by task in a way that would be simple to navigate would probably be a good start, though elisp doesn't really have a same namespacing system anyway. (Does XEmacs? I know it has a packaging system, but I use GNU Emacs.) Something like adding an alist or hash-table of symbols for task descriptions -> relevant functions, such as 'file, 'rectangle, 'email, 'basic wouldn't be too hard to retrofit onto the existing system. A bunch of redundancy wouldn't hurt, and a navigation system as in iswitchb or anything would probably work. I'm busy with projects ATM, but I'd be interested in doing this...and aside from tagging existing stuff, it would be fairly quick. It could potentially be a newbie-friendlier version of apropos, because part of the problem with apropos is that you have to know general terminology in the first place. If this already exists and I don't know about it...that might just prove my point.

mechanical_fish 18y ago
So, this isn't info-emacs-manual, but rather a system that lets you actually invoke a command by first choosing a category of commands, then choosing from a list of possible commands? Interesting. Note that the emacs module system accomplishes some of the task of organizing commands into subsets. I make liberal use of describe-mode (C-h m) when I want to figure out what my options are in a given mode. Other modes actually populate the menu tree, almost like a real Mac application! (I spent almost a week paging through the docs, trying to memorize the magit commands, before I noticed that the module had helpfully installed a "Magit" menu in the menu bar. I never look up there!)
- silentbicycle 18y ago
  I'm thinking of something along these lines: After pressing the relevant key (C-h something, also perhaps F1 or what have you, but definitely something listed on the startup screen), a prompt comes up, with a list of known keywords (basic, movement, file, buffer, latex, python, etc.). Typing filters the list for things that contain the substring (as in ido, iswitchb, anything, etc.); while this takes a bit of getting used to, there's immediate visual feedback, so it's reasonably self-explanatory. When you hit enter, the first suggested keyword is selected, it brings up a list of everything tagged with that category. (The dialog would look like the result from apropos.) Hopefully, most of the keyword mapping could be automatically generated, but it will inevitably need some hand-tuning. I know to use describe-mode, apropos, apropos-variable, info, etc. when I am looking for / have forgotten about something, but that, in itself, means I'm over the hump in learning to use Emacs. New users aren't going to know what "M-x describe-mode" refers to (or even what "M-x" is). Also, Merry Christmas.
  - mechanical_fish 18y ago
    Merry Christmas to you! Also, I do kind of like your idea, and I wholeheartedly agree with this: New users aren't going to know what "M-x describe-mode" refers to (or even what "M-x" is). Half the battle in learning Emacs is to get really, really used to all the help commands. You need to play with all of them, and you need to use them a lot, and somehow the documentation didn't really get this through to me at first. (Yegge, to his credit, makes this point 8 in his list of hints: http://steve.yegge.googlepages.com/effective-emacs http://steve.yegge.googlepages.com/effective-emacs)

mechanical_fish 18y ago

So, this isn't info-emacs-manual, but rather a system that lets you actually invoke a command by first choosing a category of commands, then choosing from a list of possible commands? Interesting. Note that the emacs module system accomplishes some of the task of organizing commands into subsets. I make liberal use of describe-mode (C-h m) when I want to figure out what my options are in a given mode. Other modes actually populate the menu tree, almost like a real Mac application! (I spent almost a week paging through the docs, trying to memorize the magit commands, before I noticed that the module had helpfully installed a "Magit" menu in the menu bar. I never look up there!)

silentbicycle 18y ago
I'm thinking of something along these lines: After pressing the relevant key (C-h something, also perhaps F1 or what have you, but definitely something listed on the startup screen), a prompt comes up, with a list of known keywords (basic, movement, file, buffer, latex, python, etc.). Typing filters the list for things that contain the substring (as in ido, iswitchb, anything, etc.); while this takes a bit of getting used to, there's immediate visual feedback, so it's reasonably self-explanatory. When you hit enter, the first suggested keyword is selected, it brings up a list of everything tagged with that category. (The dialog would look like the result from apropos.) Hopefully, most of the keyword mapping could be automatically generated, but it will inevitably need some hand-tuning. I know to use describe-mode, apropos, apropos-variable, info, etc. when I am looking for / have forgotten about something, but that, in itself, means I'm over the hump in learning to use Emacs. New users aren't going to know what "M-x describe-mode" refers to (or even what "M-x" is). Also, Merry Christmas.
- mechanical_fish 18y ago
  Merry Christmas to you! Also, I do kind of like your idea, and I wholeheartedly agree with this: New users aren't going to know what "M-x describe-mode" refers to (or even what "M-x" is). Half the battle in learning Emacs is to get really, really used to all the help commands. You need to play with all of them, and you need to use them a lot, and somehow the documentation didn't really get this through to me at first. (Yegge, to his credit, makes this point 8 in his list of hints: http://steve.yegge.googlepages.com/effective-emacs http://steve.yegge.googlepages.com/effective-emacs)