4 ms·

> Telling people to eat more fruits and vegetables often tends to be 1 percent or a high-income solution Am I totally out of touch with reality or is this a co

> Telling people to eat more fruits and vegetables often tends to be 1 percent or a high-income solution Am I totally out of touch with reality or is this a completely ridiculous remark? Only 1 procent of people is able to afford the most basic food?

atlas_hugged 2y ago
Probably not that far off the mark
gklitz 2y ago
Calling it 1% is a bit extreme, but yes fruit and vegetables as a stable part of your diet is a significan cost in western city living.
- ffgjgf1 2y ago
  Is it though? Certain types of fruits/vegetables are of course somewhat pricey. But buying the same ingredients (legumes and stuff) Huel/etc. are made from would certainly be reasonable cheap and probably way cheaper than the hyper-processed powder..
- ben_w 2y ago
  In the US, I could believe that from what I've seen in the shops when visiting as a tourist. In the UK (where I grew up) and Germany (where I live), you should be able to get the recommended 5-a-day for less than £/€ 2 per day if you need to keep costs down, and £/€ 8/day if you're being lazy and getting fairly fancy stuff. Sure, the income here is lower than in the USA, but even at the higher end that's not so much as to make that "significant". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_A_Day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_A_Day
ffgjgf1 2y ago
Yeah, sounds pretty silly. Also eating too much fruit isn’t the best idea either.
Tade0 2y ago
It's counterintuitive, but apparently shelf life trumps low cost of production. Apples last how long, two weeks? Meanwhile pasteurized apple juice can sit for months at room temperature.
- manmal 2y ago
  I highly recommend getting a big freezer if you can, it saves so many shopping trips for fresh vegetables, and the frozen ones are basically just as good. Pre-cut onions, herbs, cooked rice etc - can be prepped well, and only need heating up for a quick meal. Greens (leaves) and raw potatoes don’t work though.
- leereeves 2y ago
  Apples last a long time if you discard the bad ones quickly. I eat apples up to a month after buying them. They're still edible even then but I don't like them when they start to get soft.
- thefz 2y ago
  > Apples last how long, two weeks? Apples last months as they contain pectin.
  - Tade0 2y ago
    The gelling agent? How is that supposed to help when they rot?
    - thefz 2y ago
      Pectin in apples is a stabilizer and is actually how humans discovered that some fruit jam has a very long shelf life.
- ffgjgf1 2y ago
  Some types of apples can last through winter if stored properly (even without refrigeration), I would assume it would depend on the climate though. IIRC they tend to be quite a bit more sour so probably not to popular just because of that.
manmal 2y ago
One thing I often do is put canned legumes and frozen veggies in my instant pot‘s steaming basket and pressure cook for 2 minutes (takes ca 15 minutes including warmup time). This is then the base for a custom bowl, maybe adding things like millet and raw onions, or fresh greens. Making a bowl like this is not as convenient and cheap as Huel, but I wouldn’t call it a high income solution either. Most components can be prepped for the whole week (millet in the fridge, onions and herbs in the freezer etc), so net cooking time (where I actively need to do anything) is maybe 5 minutes - 2 minutes loading and starting the instant pot, and 3 minutes assembly of the bowl ingredients. The worst thing about is prep time and requirement to have a big freezer and potentially need to shop fresh vegetables (but that can be skipped, depending on the frozen veggie mix).
GeoAtreides 2y ago
London is not a cheap city, but: Bananas: £0.9/kg Potatoes: £0.8/kg Chickpeas in water 400g: £0.49 (£2.09/kg) Black beans in water 400g: £0.49 (£2.09/kg) Apples/Pears: £0.35-£0.45 each (£1-2/kg, depends) London median salary: £44400/year Fruits and vegetables are always cheap or very cheap, the actual cost is time (and knowing how to cook from scratch and having a kitchen)
thinkharderdev 2y ago
The actual advice from a nutritionist that was quoted was > focusing less on meal replacements and more on whole fruits and vegetables from local farmers, in addition to occasional animal products from farms where those animals were “raised with sustainable practices.” Which does strike me as advice for relatively affluent people (although "for the 1%" is a bit of a stretch....). It is indeed not that easy to buy fresh, locally grown fruits and veggies for many people. But I do take your point. I don't think money is really the barrier to people eating a nutritious diet of whole foods. The limiting factor is probably time and discipline. You need to shop for fresh foods every few days (real foods spoil!) and actually prepare meals, when the alternative of cheap, prepared foods that are mostly junk are readily available.
- rustybolt 2y ago
  I fully agree with you: Fruit and vegetables from local farmers is a bit more expensive. Whether it's from local farmers is also not really relevant to the nutritional value. So the whole line of reasoning is just complete bogus. The whole article feels like a thinly-veiled advertisement without any informational value.
  - tzs 2y ago
    It's an exaggeration to say only high income people can afford fruits and vegetables, but it is true that affording them can be a problem for many lower income people. Around 19 million people in the US live in "food deserts", which are low-income places with poor access to transportation and no supermarkets within a mile (for urban and suburban food deserts) or within 10 miles (for rural food deserts). Their choices for affordable day to day food tend to be fast food places and convenience stores. When the closest you've got to a grocery store is 7-11 your fruit and vegetable options are limited.
    - woleium 2y ago
      I can’t find the link, but i read that food deserts are mostly there as a result of market effects, i.e. insufficient customers bought fresh fruits and vegetables from shops in that area, so they closed.
ghusto 2y ago
I think it's mostly an American thing, as I hear it a lot coming from there. Never heard anyone in Europe saying regular fresh fruit and vegetables is out of their budget. I've heard American tourists exclaim surprise when they visit normal supermarkets here, things like "Oh! It's like a Wholefoods, but cheap!".
- ben_w 2y ago
  Indeed. In reverse, when I (British living in Berlin) have visited the US, the fresh fruit and veg section of the cheaper American supermarkets is priced like fancy expensive organic supermarkets here. Whole Foods (and the co-op in one of the towns I visited) is priced like Harrods, KaDeWe, or Galeries Lafayette: • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrods • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaufhaus_des_Westens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaufhaus_des_Westens • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galeries_Lafayette https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galeries_Lafayette
nunez 2y ago
It's not ridiculous. Grocery stores tend to be few and far between in low-income areas. Those that do exist typically don't have fruits or vegetables because processed food is cheaper in volume. It's a well-documented issue. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert

atlas_hugged 2y ago

Probably not that far off the mark

gklitz 2y ago

Calling it 1% is a bit extreme, but yes fruit and vegetables as a stable part of your diet is a significan cost in western city living.

ffgjgf1 2y ago
Is it though? Certain types of fruits/vegetables are of course somewhat pricey. But buying the same ingredients (legumes and stuff) Huel/etc. are made from would certainly be reasonable cheap and probably way cheaper than the hyper-processed powder..
ben_w 2y ago
In the US, I could believe that from what I've seen in the shops when visiting as a tourist. In the UK (where I grew up) and Germany (where I live), you should be able to get the recommended 5-a-day for less than £/€ 2 per day if you need to keep costs down, and £/€ 8/day if you're being lazy and getting fairly fancy stuff. Sure, the income here is lower than in the USA, but even at the higher end that's not so much as to make that "significant". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_A_Day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_A_Day

ffgjgf1 2y ago

Yeah, sounds pretty silly. Also eating too much fruit isn’t the best idea either.

Tade0 2y ago

It's counterintuitive, but apparently shelf life trumps low cost of production. Apples last how long, two weeks? Meanwhile pasteurized apple juice can sit for months at room temperature.

manmal 2y ago
I highly recommend getting a big freezer if you can, it saves so many shopping trips for fresh vegetables, and the frozen ones are basically just as good. Pre-cut onions, herbs, cooked rice etc - can be prepped well, and only need heating up for a quick meal. Greens (leaves) and raw potatoes don’t work though.
leereeves 2y ago
Apples last a long time if you discard the bad ones quickly. I eat apples up to a month after buying them. They're still edible even then but I don't like them when they start to get soft.
thefz 2y ago
> Apples last how long, two weeks? Apples last months as they contain pectin.
- Tade0 2y ago
  The gelling agent? How is that supposed to help when they rot?
  - thefz 2y ago
    Pectin in apples is a stabilizer and is actually how humans discovered that some fruit jam has a very long shelf life.
ffgjgf1 2y ago
Some types of apples can last through winter if stored properly (even without refrigeration), I would assume it would depend on the climate though. IIRC they tend to be quite a bit more sour so probably not to popular just because of that.

manmal 2y ago

One thing I often do is put canned legumes and frozen veggies in my instant pot‘s steaming basket and pressure cook for 2 minutes (takes ca 15 minutes including warmup time). This is then the base for a custom bowl, maybe adding things like millet and raw onions, or fresh greens. Making a bowl like this is not as convenient and cheap as Huel, but I wouldn’t call it a high income solution either. Most components can be prepped for the whole week (millet in the fridge, onions and herbs in the freezer etc), so net cooking time (where I actively need to do anything) is maybe 5 minutes - 2 minutes loading and starting the instant pot, and 3 minutes assembly of the bowl ingredients. The worst thing about is prep time and requirement to have a big freezer and potentially need to shop fresh vegetables (but that can be skipped, depending on the frozen veggie mix).

GeoAtreides 2y ago

London is not a cheap city, but: Bananas: £0.9/kg Potatoes: £0.8/kg Chickpeas in water 400g: £0.49 (£2.09/kg) Black beans in water 400g: £0.49 (£2.09/kg) Apples/Pears: £0.35-£0.45 each (£1-2/kg, depends) London median salary: £44400/year Fruits and vegetables are always cheap or very cheap, the actual cost is time (and knowing how to cook from scratch and having a kitchen)

thinkharderdev 2y ago

The actual advice from a nutritionist that was quoted was > focusing less on meal replacements and more on whole fruits and vegetables from local farmers, in addition to occasional animal products from farms where those animals were “raised with sustainable practices.” Which does strike me as advice for relatively affluent people (although "for the 1%" is a bit of a stretch....). It is indeed not that easy to buy fresh, locally grown fruits and veggies for many people. But I do take your point. I don't think money is really the barrier to people eating a nutritious diet of whole foods. The limiting factor is probably time and discipline. You need to shop for fresh foods every few days (real foods spoil!) and actually prepare meals, when the alternative of cheap, prepared foods that are mostly junk are readily available.

rustybolt 2y ago
I fully agree with you: Fruit and vegetables from local farmers is a bit more expensive. Whether it's from local farmers is also not really relevant to the nutritional value. So the whole line of reasoning is just complete bogus. The whole article feels like a thinly-veiled advertisement without any informational value.
- tzs 2y ago
  It's an exaggeration to say only high income people can afford fruits and vegetables, but it is true that affording them can be a problem for many lower income people. Around 19 million people in the US live in "food deserts", which are low-income places with poor access to transportation and no supermarkets within a mile (for urban and suburban food deserts) or within 10 miles (for rural food deserts). Their choices for affordable day to day food tend to be fast food places and convenience stores. When the closest you've got to a grocery store is 7-11 your fruit and vegetable options are limited.
  - woleium 2y ago
    I can’t find the link, but i read that food deserts are mostly there as a result of market effects, i.e. insufficient customers bought fresh fruits and vegetables from shops in that area, so they closed.

ghusto 2y ago

I think it's mostly an American thing, as I hear it a lot coming from there. Never heard anyone in Europe saying regular fresh fruit and vegetables is out of their budget. I've heard American tourists exclaim surprise when they visit normal supermarkets here, things like "Oh! It's like a Wholefoods, but cheap!".

ben_w 2y ago
Indeed. In reverse, when I (British living in Berlin) have visited the US, the fresh fruit and veg section of the cheaper American supermarkets is priced like fancy expensive organic supermarkets here. Whole Foods (and the co-op in one of the towns I visited) is priced like Harrods, KaDeWe, or Galeries Lafayette: • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrods • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaufhaus_des_Westens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaufhaus_des_Westens • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galeries_Lafayette https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galeries_Lafayette

nunez 2y ago

It's not ridiculous. Grocery stores tend to be few and far between in low-income areas. Those that do exist typically don't have fruits or vegetables because processed food is cheaper in volume. It's a well-documented issue. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert