3 ms·

Java Vs. Python. Which is better for a Start-Up?

6 points by realrocker 14y ago

PythonDeveloper 14y ago
The chart you show is inaccurate. It's using Hotspot server for Java, but interpreted Python. For a fair comparison, you should use Psyco or PyPy for the tests. I suspect you'll find it right in line with Hotspot under Java.
- realrocker 14y ago
  Yes I agree, but I couldn't find a comparative chart showing performance tests for all the depicted languages
  - cldrope 14y ago
    Accurate results have so many metrics that it's specific to your specific tasks so your goal of a comparative chart is hopeless, unfortunately. Also, this is probably one of the biggest cancers to HN. People writing low-quality articles, then posting it here themselves. Are you points-farming, or are you just self-promoting? Either way you're abusing a network for mutual interest for self-serving purposes.
    - realrocker 14y ago
      Neither. Just asking for Help. Yes that's self serving a bit.
uniclaude 14y ago
"Can Java Web Servers give me the same features of an evented/non-blocking I/O? Answer: Nope" I wonder if OP knows about Jetty, which seems to be exactly this.
- atto 14y ago
  Or frameworks such as Play!, which use Akka on the backend.
- realrocker 14y ago
  fixed it.
TrevorJ 14y ago
The software team I work with moved to Python two or three years ago and has found it to be fairly stellar at meeting the specific challenges we face.
EToS 14y ago
Best answer to any question like this is "use the right tool for the job." In the case of Java and Python, Java is quite clearly better suited to large strategic code such as core systems, whilst Python on the other hand is ideal for quick, often rewritten and short lived applications (e.g 1-3 years life) as there are many accounts of startups rebuilding their platforms 1-2 years in, i'd suggest theres a good business case for using lean and quick technologies within the first few years, whilst your innovating and learning your business
antidoh 14y ago
Java if you're selling into banks or other Enterprise, otherwise Python for expressiveness, tools and sanity. Much of what gets done is going to happen in the database anyway ...
irahul 14y ago
Yay. Here we go again. > Development: Java will take 2-3 times more lines of code to implement the business features. That will be true most of the times. Also consider that a good part is Java boilerplate(getters-setters, anonymous classes where you should have lambdas, everything inside a class), and some of it is just bad programming. Peter Norwig's spell corrector in Python: http://norvig.com/spell-correct.html http://norvig.com/spell-correct.html In Java: http://raelcunha.com/spell-correct.php http://raelcunha.com/spell-correct.php > Deployment: Slower Deployment Cycles.(hence slower iteration). Errrmmm, how is that property of Java? Deploy it as often as you want. How is Java stopping you? > Concurrency: Can Java Web Servers(e.g Tomcat Apache) handle high level of concurrency? Answer: Debatable Answer - My memory might be playing tricks on me, but I remember a few years back tomcat was a reference implementation, and wasn't to be used for production deployments. Currently, the http://tomcat.apache.org/ http://tomcat.apache.org/ homepage claims Apache Tomcat powers numerous large-scale, mission-critical web applications across a diverse range of industries and organizations, so I might be wrong. But that's not important - what's important is you have jetty, netty and other options which are pretty fast in practice. > Node.js,Twisted : Can Java Web Servers give me the same features of an evented/non-blocking I/O? Answer: Nope Nio? Mina? Netty? > Python is slow in execution. Python is slow when it comes to raw CPU. If your app is CPU constrained, either write C extensions or divide work between computation units. Most of the apps are IO constrained, and you can use gevent or equivalent to make it faster.
- realrocker 14y ago
  "Node.js,Twisted : Can Java Web Servers give me the same features of an evented/non-blocking I/O? Answer: Nope" I eat my words. Fixed it on the post too.
  - realrocker 14y ago
    >Python is Slower. Or use any of the JIT interpreters. Yes there is definitely scope for making it faster.
- realrocker 14y ago
  >Deployment I need to compile the whole thing if I have to make even a tiny change. Therefore, deployment becomes an event. Events tend to be planned and managed, hence slower.
marshallp 14y ago
How about the best of both worlds (and more) - ocaml/haskell
- realrocker 14y ago
  Haskell you fiend, stop following me around! Well, we are at a very nascent stage and Haskell may be bit of an overkill. But, I will give it a second look to quiet my demons.
beothorn 14y ago
One thing I never see on these discussions about static typed versus dynamic is compile time errors versus runtime. For me this is really important, but I never see it mentioned anywhere, am I missing something?
keymone 14y ago
every time i see "hello world" argument in such article i'm doing facepalm and closing it.

6 points by realrocker 14y ago

The chart you show is inaccurate. It's using Hotspot server for Java, but interpreted Python. For a fair comparison, you should use Psyco or PyPy for the tests. I suspect you'll find it right in line with Hotspot under Java.

realrocker 14y ago
Yes I agree, but I couldn't find a comparative chart showing performance tests for all the depicted languages
- cldrope 14y ago
  Accurate results have so many metrics that it's specific to your specific tasks so your goal of a comparative chart is hopeless, unfortunately. Also, this is probably one of the biggest cancers to HN. People writing low-quality articles, then posting it here themselves. Are you points-farming, or are you just self-promoting? Either way you're abusing a network for mutual interest for self-serving purposes.
  - realrocker 14y ago
    Neither. Just asking for Help. Yes that's self serving a bit.

uniclaude 14y ago

"Can Java Web Servers give me the same features of an evented/non-blocking I/O? Answer: Nope" I wonder if OP knows about Jetty, which seems to be exactly this.

atto 14y ago
Or frameworks such as Play!, which use Akka on the backend.
realrocker 14y ago
fixed it.

TrevorJ 14y ago

The software team I work with moved to Python two or three years ago and has found it to be fairly stellar at meeting the specific challenges we face.

EToS 14y ago

Best answer to any question like this is "use the right tool for the job." In the case of Java and Python, Java is quite clearly better suited to large strategic code such as core systems, whilst Python on the other hand is ideal for quick, often rewritten and short lived applications (e.g 1-3 years life) as there are many accounts of startups rebuilding their platforms 1-2 years in, i'd suggest theres a good business case for using lean and quick technologies within the first few years, whilst your innovating and learning your business

antidoh 14y ago

Java if you're selling into banks or other Enterprise, otherwise Python for expressiveness, tools and sanity. Much of what gets done is going to happen in the database anyway ...

irahul 14y ago

Yay. Here we go again. > Development: Java will take 2-3 times more lines of code to implement the business features. That will be true most of the times. Also consider that a good part is Java boilerplate(getters-setters, anonymous classes where you should have lambdas, everything inside a class), and some of it is just bad programming. Peter Norwig's spell corrector in Python: http://norvig.com/spell-correct.html http://norvig.com/spell-correct.html In Java: http://raelcunha.com/spell-correct.php http://raelcunha.com/spell-correct.php > Deployment: Slower Deployment Cycles.(hence slower iteration). Errrmmm, how is that property of Java? Deploy it as often as you want. How is Java stopping you? > Concurrency: Can Java Web Servers(e.g Tomcat Apache) handle high level of concurrency? Answer: Debatable Answer - My memory might be playing tricks on me, but I remember a few years back tomcat was a reference implementation, and wasn't to be used for production deployments. Currently, the http://tomcat.apache.org/ http://tomcat.apache.org/ homepage claims Apache Tomcat powers numerous large-scale, mission-critical web applications across a diverse range of industries and organizations, so I might be wrong. But that's not important - what's important is you have jetty, netty and other options which are pretty fast in practice. > Node.js,Twisted : Can Java Web Servers give me the same features of an evented/non-blocking I/O? Answer: Nope Nio? Mina? Netty? > Python is slow in execution. Python is slow when it comes to raw CPU. If your app is CPU constrained, either write C extensions or divide work between computation units. Most of the apps are IO constrained, and you can use gevent or equivalent to make it faster.

realrocker 14y ago
"Node.js,Twisted : Can Java Web Servers give me the same features of an evented/non-blocking I/O? Answer: Nope" I eat my words. Fixed it on the post too.
- realrocker 14y ago
  >Python is Slower. Or use any of the JIT interpreters. Yes there is definitely scope for making it faster.
realrocker 14y ago
>Deployment I need to compile the whole thing if I have to make even a tiny change. Therefore, deployment becomes an event. Events tend to be planned and managed, hence slower.

marshallp 14y ago

How about the best of both worlds (and more) - ocaml/haskell

realrocker 14y ago
Haskell you fiend, stop following me around! Well, we are at a very nascent stage and Haskell may be bit of an overkill. But, I will give it a second look to quiet my demons.

beothorn 14y ago

One thing I never see on these discussions about static typed versus dynamic is compile time errors versus runtime. For me this is really important, but I never see it mentioned anywhere, am I missing something?

keymone 14y ago

every time i see "hello world" argument in such article i'm doing facepalm and closing it.