10 ms·

Modifying the OG Xbox to have 256M of RAM [video]

61 points by indrora 2y ago

skyyler 2y ago
Neat! I've been loving the Xbox Arms Race recently.
xnx 2y ago
Amazing that this is possible. Also saw a video of upgrading a Nintendo Switch to 8GB of RAM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4oXmQGZgzU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4oXmQGZgzU
- deaddodo 2y ago
  The Switch memory expansion is probably much more useful than this, for general users. No standing software is able to utilize this memory expansion, only homebrew software specifically coded for it can. In contrast, the Switch OS manages memory for apps and would be able to allocate additional memory automatically, as long as it's been made aware.
  - brianwawok 2y ago
    Stock switch OS plays games faster / loads faster?
  - blincoln 2y ago
    I don't know for sure about 256MB, but some Xbox prototype games require a debug BIOS and the extra RAM in the debug kit.
    - deaddodo 2y ago
      Correct, there are some applications that can take advantage because they were built only on the devkit or for the arcade configuration. I just meant to say standard Xbox software and a good chunk of homebrew will not benefit from the expanded memory. I also believe (but could be misinformed) that the arcade configuration and Devkit had an even larger memory space, so you might still have issues in that regard.
      - foldor 2y ago
        The dev kits had 128MB of RAM. It's been possible for decades to upgrade the Xbox to 128MB of RAM by just populating the empty RAM using the same modules as the rest of the system. It allowed booting Chihiro games, and dev builds. But this hack replaces all the original modules with ones sporting twice the capacity to allow 256MB.
        deaddodo 2y ago
        Gotcha, for some reason I was under the impression that the Arcade kit or DevKit had an odd memory setup of 640mb or something like that. Thanks for the correction!
  - laidoffamazon 2y ago
    Also, if my YouTube recommended is any indication there's a healthy Linux ecosystem for the Switch and the X1 now - some people have even shown Switch games playing on Switch via emulator in Ubuntu [0] [0] https://youtu.be/H1gveQUBIKk?t=2332 https://youtu.be/H1gveQUBIKk?t=2332
    - deaddodo 2y ago
      That's because nVidia has always had a decent support level for their Tegra chips via the Jetson program, the X1 being one of the better utilized ones. The Switch benefited greatly from that community.
Cieric 2y ago
Since it was mentioned in the Macho Nacho video, this was quite a hurdle. But it does bring up the question, what is the theoretical maximum possible? I know the CPU was 32-bit, so 4GiB is the upper limit in that regard. I don't know if the CPU has limited address lanes or any other physical limitation though. The max I've seen discussed is 1.5GB for a similar cpu on a normal desktop and 640MB for the test design of the xbox (the literal pc version, not the dev kit).
- toast0 2y ago
  I can't figure out if the xbox processor supports PAE or not. But references say most Intel processors after pentium pro, including Pentium III support PAE. Probably with 36 bits of physical addressing. But it's a mobile socket; no idea if they put all the address pins out on those.
  - wk_end 2y ago
    OT: Like you mentioned PAE was introduced with the Pentium Pro in '95. That was the same year my family got its first PC, with a whopping 8MB of RAM. It's wild to think that Intel was looking at 4GB and saying, "This probably isn't going to be enough."
    - Rinzler89 2y ago
      >It's wild to think that Intel was looking at 4GB and saying, "This probably isn't going to be enough." Not really. While consumers at home had 8MB, Intel was already looking to compete with PowerPC, DEC Alpha, MIPS systems where 4GB wasn't really out of the ordinary, so they knew where things were going.
      - LukeShu 2y ago
        As far as I know, there were only 5 PPro computers that could take >4GB: Axil Northbridge NX801, Data General AV8600, HP NetServer LXr Pro8, NCR Worldmark 4380, or Unisys XR/6 Interestingly, while the Intel 450GX chipset was designed to daisy-chain DRAM controllers (1 controller chip per 4GB of RAM), none of the boards that actually could take >4GB used that, instead building their own solutions. Presumably that meant that there was a bug in the chipset. Anyway, each of those 5 computers would have run you at least $500k in 1998. (I've been on-and-off trying to acquire one of those boxes for a few years now.)
Dwedit 2y ago
The real question is if this will stop Morrowind from secretly rebooting the XBOX at certain load screens.
- Night_Thastus 2y ago
  Modders have done some incredible work optimizing and bug-fixing Morrowind over the years. I'm curious if someone could mash all of that together and 're-pack' an Xbox version of the game that ran way smoother. Completely pointless? Yes. Interesting? Also yes!
- jsheard 2y ago
  Probably not, at least not without hacking the game. Typically only things which were built to use the extra RAM see any benefit, whether that's homebrew, leaked game betas which rely on the extra RAM that devkits had, or games made for the Sega Chihiro arcade platform which was basically an Xbox but with double the RAM.
  - Arrath 2y ago
    There was a great article here a few months ago on this very subject, detailing getting Halo 2 to run in true HD, properly using the extra RAM of the devkit, and the engine hacks required to do so (since it basically statically allocated a handful of regions and couldn't dynamically go "oh look more RAM!"). It was a good read!
- hermitdev 2y ago
  Are you kidding? It's a Bethesda game, of course it won't fix any bugs. It's 2024 and the exact same sort of issues exist in Skyrim and Fallout 4 (even after the remasters/anniversary editions)! I've run into issues recently (in June) with Fallout 4 where if your saved game data starts approaching 2GB on Xbox One x, saving the game will fail in weird ways (may hang the game, may crash the game). Once the game gets in this state, I'm not even able to launch the game without it hanging. Have to delete local game data, resync your saves from Live and pray you didn't lose more than a few minutes of gameplay.
hi_dang_ 2y ago
[flagged]
errorcameraman 2y ago
100

61 points by indrora 2y ago

Neat! I've been loving the Xbox Arms Race recently.

xnx 2y ago

Amazing that this is possible. Also saw a video of upgrading a Nintendo Switch to 8GB of RAM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4oXmQGZgzU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4oXmQGZgzU

deaddodo 2y ago
The Switch memory expansion is probably much more useful than this, for general users. No standing software is able to utilize this memory expansion, only homebrew software specifically coded for it can. In contrast, the Switch OS manages memory for apps and would be able to allocate additional memory automatically, as long as it's been made aware.
- brianwawok 2y ago
  Stock switch OS plays games faster / loads faster?
- blincoln 2y ago
  I don't know for sure about 256MB, but some Xbox prototype games require a debug BIOS and the extra RAM in the debug kit.
  - deaddodo 2y ago
    Correct, there are some applications that can take advantage because they were built only on the devkit or for the arcade configuration. I just meant to say standard Xbox software and a good chunk of homebrew will not benefit from the expanded memory. I also believe (but could be misinformed) that the arcade configuration and Devkit had an even larger memory space, so you might still have issues in that regard.
    - foldor 2y ago
      The dev kits had 128MB of RAM. It's been possible for decades to upgrade the Xbox to 128MB of RAM by just populating the empty RAM using the same modules as the rest of the system. It allowed booting Chihiro games, and dev builds. But this hack replaces all the original modules with ones sporting twice the capacity to allow 256MB.
      - deaddodo 2y ago
        Gotcha, for some reason I was under the impression that the Arcade kit or DevKit had an odd memory setup of 640mb or something like that. Thanks for the correction!
- laidoffamazon 2y ago
  Also, if my YouTube recommended is any indication there's a healthy Linux ecosystem for the Switch and the X1 now - some people have even shown Switch games playing on Switch via emulator in Ubuntu [0] [0] https://youtu.be/H1gveQUBIKk?t=2332 https://youtu.be/H1gveQUBIKk?t=2332
  - deaddodo 2y ago
    That's because nVidia has always had a decent support level for their Tegra chips via the Jetson program, the X1 being one of the better utilized ones. The Switch benefited greatly from that community.

Cieric 2y ago

Since it was mentioned in the Macho Nacho video, this was quite a hurdle. But it does bring up the question, what is the theoretical maximum possible? I know the CPU was 32-bit, so 4GiB is the upper limit in that regard. I don't know if the CPU has limited address lanes or any other physical limitation though. The max I've seen discussed is 1.5GB for a similar cpu on a normal desktop and 640MB for the test design of the xbox (the literal pc version, not the dev kit).

toast0 2y ago
I can't figure out if the xbox processor supports PAE or not. But references say most Intel processors after pentium pro, including Pentium III support PAE. Probably with 36 bits of physical addressing. But it's a mobile socket; no idea if they put all the address pins out on those.
- wk_end 2y ago
  OT: Like you mentioned PAE was introduced with the Pentium Pro in '95. That was the same year my family got its first PC, with a whopping 8MB of RAM. It's wild to think that Intel was looking at 4GB and saying, "This probably isn't going to be enough."
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    >It's wild to think that Intel was looking at 4GB and saying, "This probably isn't going to be enough." Not really. While consumers at home had 8MB, Intel was already looking to compete with PowerPC, DEC Alpha, MIPS systems where 4GB wasn't really out of the ordinary, so they knew where things were going.
    - LukeShu 2y ago
      As far as I know, there were only 5 PPro computers that could take >4GB: Axil Northbridge NX801, Data General AV8600, HP NetServer LXr Pro8, NCR Worldmark 4380, or Unisys XR/6 Interestingly, while the Intel 450GX chipset was designed to daisy-chain DRAM controllers (1 controller chip per 4GB of RAM), none of the boards that actually could take >4GB used that, instead building their own solutions. Presumably that meant that there was a bug in the chipset. Anyway, each of those 5 computers would have run you at least $500k in 1998. (I've been on-and-off trying to acquire one of those boxes for a few years now.)

Dwedit 2y ago

The real question is if this will stop Morrowind from secretly rebooting the XBOX at certain load screens.

Night_Thastus 2y ago
Modders have done some incredible work optimizing and bug-fixing Morrowind over the years. I'm curious if someone could mash all of that together and 're-pack' an Xbox version of the game that ran way smoother. Completely pointless? Yes. Interesting? Also yes!
jsheard 2y ago
Probably not, at least not without hacking the game. Typically only things which were built to use the extra RAM see any benefit, whether that's homebrew, leaked game betas which rely on the extra RAM that devkits had, or games made for the Sega Chihiro arcade platform which was basically an Xbox but with double the RAM.
- Arrath 2y ago
  There was a great article here a few months ago on this very subject, detailing getting Halo 2 to run in true HD, properly using the extra RAM of the devkit, and the engine hacks required to do so (since it basically statically allocated a handful of regions and couldn't dynamically go "oh look more RAM!"). It was a good read!
hermitdev 2y ago
Are you kidding? It's a Bethesda game, of course it won't fix any bugs. It's 2024 and the exact same sort of issues exist in Skyrim and Fallout 4 (even after the remasters/anniversary editions)! I've run into issues recently (in June) with Fallout 4 where if your saved game data starts approaching 2GB on Xbox One x, saving the game will fail in weird ways (may hang the game, may crash the game). Once the game gets in this state, I'm not even able to launch the game without it hanging. Have to delete local game data, resync your saves from Live and pray you didn't lose more than a few minutes of gameplay.

hi_dang_ 2y ago

[flagged]

errorcameraman 2y ago

100