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The "lessons learned" are all very basic. Things like "separate the network management layer from the data network", "provide the network operation center with

The "lessons learned" are all very basic. Things like "separate the network management layer from the data network", "provide the network operation center with backup connectivity", etc. This is networking 101. Heck, this is engineering 101. The real question is how a network provider as large as Rogers managed to be so poorly engineered in the first place.

intunderflow 2y ago
Monopolization and corruption Rogers isn't the massive network it is because Canadian consumers love them and want to use them - they just have no choice, and the government does all it can to keep it that way
- ilrwbwrkhv 2y ago
  Canadians are sheep like in their mentally and incredibly risk averse. So there is zero competition.
  - jszymborski 2y ago
    I don't think this is an acceptable way to speak about 41 million people on the basis of their nationality.
    - piuantiderp 2y ago
      What is a good way to speak on the basis of nationality or it is always bad (tm)?
lm411 2y ago
Networking 101 doesn't apply when you have collusion between the only two major telecom companies... and they both are bad. Why spend money on reliability when there are no consequences of not doing so?
xyst 2y ago
Rogers is a monopoly. There is no incentive to improve. No incentive to hire good people on the floor to fix fundamental issues. Just middle management and c-level suite hoarding all of the money. At this point, the government can fine them but it’s just passed on to the consumers. Maybe a random regulatory fee. Can’t close them down otherwise risk massive downtime to critical infra (emergency services)
gary_0 2y ago
Someone already mentioned the monopolism/corruption, but Canada also doesn't have much of an engineering/technology culture. Growing up in a BC suburb, it seemed like we were always 5-10 years behind the US on things like home computers, the Internet, cell phones, and e-commerce. And when that stuff did finally arrive, it cost far more than it did down South. And most of the people around me didn't seem to care; nobody I knew was interested in technology, either as an enthusiast or as a consumer. And anyone who is good at technology generally moves across the border for the much better wages--and actually being able to work at a real tech company. In short: brain drain is a factor too.
- walterbell 2y ago
  > Canada also doesn't have much of an engineering/technology culture The ghosts of Northern Telecom, Blackberry and Instant Pot (ex-Nortel) would like a word. Also Bombardier aircraft and "AI". https://www.utoronto.ca/news/u-t-deep-learning-pioneer-geoffrey-hinton-receives-honorary-degree https://www.utoronto.ca/news/u-t-deep-learning-pioneer-geoff... > When you translate a sentence using Google, or ask Siri to send a text, or play a song recommended by Spotify, you are using a technology that owes much to the innovative research of Geoffrey Hinton.. “deep learning” – a form of artificial intelligence (AI) based on neural networks.. Hinton’s revolutionary contributions to the field have earned him the nickname “the godfather of deep learning,” and have made Canada a hotbed for high tech.. for his excellence as a global pioneer in deep learning, Hinton received a Doctor of Science, honoris causa from the University of Toronto, where he is a University Professor Emeritus.
  - gary_0 2y ago
    Our universities are decent, I'll give you that. Great for educating folks like Andrej Karpathy so they can go work for American tech companies, or doing research that can be used by American tech companies. Also, bringing up Blackberry to make Canada seem relevant kind of has the opposite effect.
    - walterbell 2y ago
      > bringing up Blackberry to make Canada seem relevant The topic of this subthread is not relevance, it's engineering culture. Canada produced a device that was used by the U.S. President, plus countless executives who could afford any device of that era. It was such a specimen of engineering excellence that you can pay in 2024 to retrofit an original Blackberry keyboard onto a modern iPhone, i.e. no one has yet surpassed that physical keyboard. U.S. tech companies continue to recruit from U of Waterloo.
zulban 2y ago
Indeed. When a post mortem lists a bunch of engineering 101 tidbits, the reader should ask themselves why deeper questions are not being asked. The failure was not technical, it has no technical solution, it's about people and orgs.

intunderflow 2y ago

Monopolization and corruption Rogers isn't the massive network it is because Canadian consumers love them and want to use them - they just have no choice, and the government does all it can to keep it that way

ilrwbwrkhv 2y ago
Canadians are sheep like in their mentally and incredibly risk averse. So there is zero competition.
- jszymborski 2y ago
  I don't think this is an acceptable way to speak about 41 million people on the basis of their nationality.
  - piuantiderp 2y ago
    What is a good way to speak on the basis of nationality or it is always bad (tm)?

lm411 2y ago

Networking 101 doesn't apply when you have collusion between the only two major telecom companies... and they both are bad. Why spend money on reliability when there are no consequences of not doing so?

xyst 2y ago

Rogers is a monopoly. There is no incentive to improve. No incentive to hire good people on the floor to fix fundamental issues. Just middle management and c-level suite hoarding all of the money. At this point, the government can fine them but it’s just passed on to the consumers. Maybe a random regulatory fee. Can’t close them down otherwise risk massive downtime to critical infra (emergency services)

gary_0 2y ago

Someone already mentioned the monopolism/corruption, but Canada also doesn't have much of an engineering/technology culture. Growing up in a BC suburb, it seemed like we were always 5-10 years behind the US on things like home computers, the Internet, cell phones, and e-commerce. And when that stuff did finally arrive, it cost far more than it did down South. And most of the people around me didn't seem to care; nobody I knew was interested in technology, either as an enthusiast or as a consumer. And anyone who is good at technology generally moves across the border for the much better wages--and actually being able to work at a real tech company. In short: brain drain is a factor too.

walterbell 2y ago
> Canada also doesn't have much of an engineering/technology culture The ghosts of Northern Telecom, Blackberry and Instant Pot (ex-Nortel) would like a word. Also Bombardier aircraft and "AI". https://www.utoronto.ca/news/u-t-deep-learning-pioneer-geoffrey-hinton-receives-honorary-degree https://www.utoronto.ca/news/u-t-deep-learning-pioneer-geoff... > When you translate a sentence using Google, or ask Siri to send a text, or play a song recommended by Spotify, you are using a technology that owes much to the innovative research of Geoffrey Hinton.. “deep learning” – a form of artificial intelligence (AI) based on neural networks.. Hinton’s revolutionary contributions to the field have earned him the nickname “the godfather of deep learning,” and have made Canada a hotbed for high tech.. for his excellence as a global pioneer in deep learning, Hinton received a Doctor of Science, honoris causa from the University of Toronto, where he is a University Professor Emeritus.
- gary_0 2y ago
  Our universities are decent, I'll give you that. Great for educating folks like Andrej Karpathy so they can go work for American tech companies, or doing research that can be used by American tech companies. Also, bringing up Blackberry to make Canada seem relevant kind of has the opposite effect.
  - walterbell 2y ago
    > bringing up Blackberry to make Canada seem relevant The topic of this subthread is not relevance, it's engineering culture. Canada produced a device that was used by the U.S. President, plus countless executives who could afford any device of that era. It was such a specimen of engineering excellence that you can pay in 2024 to retrofit an original Blackberry keyboard onto a modern iPhone, i.e. no one has yet surpassed that physical keyboard. U.S. tech companies continue to recruit from U of Waterloo.

zulban 2y ago

Indeed. When a post mortem lists a bunch of engineering 101 tidbits, the reader should ask themselves why deeper questions are not being asked. The failure was not technical, it has no technical solution, it's about people and orgs.