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But I wouldn't call a toaster running code an example of software crisis. Call it business crisis or crisis of capitalism/consumerism, but it is not software cr

by bsoles 2y ago

But I wouldn't call a toaster running code an example of software crisis. Call it business crisis or crisis of capitalism/consumerism, but it is not software crisis. I agree wholeheartedly that an internet connected toaster is a very stupid idea, but our ability to build such a system shows, if anything, a triumph of software (and hardware), not a crisis. What is a crisis here is societal one; the fact that there is a demand, however artificially created, for such things. Software abstractions or layers of abstractions to be able to build such devices have nothing to do with this kind of crisis.

nicce 2y ago
> I agree wholeheartedly that an internet connected toaster is a very stupid idea, but our ability to build such a system shows, if anything, a triumph of software (and hardware), not a crisis We have managed to build systems with software that "triumph" for a very long time. Look no further than Voyager 1. A technical masterpiece which still works. But fundamentally, about the toaster; we see these things in toasters because there are so many abstractions and possibilities. It is easy to embed software for the toaster without having a legion of software developers from different fields. And it adds up and is the main issue of "unintended" usecases for toasters. Many from these cases are not depending from the developer. Developers do not even know about them or were not thinking about them because there were abstracted away. Overall system of the toaster can be so complex in these days, that no single person can understand it completely alone. But yes, the consumer part and that it is okay if toaster breaks, is indeed social problem. But likelihood of toasters breaking or doing something else than supposed to, could be originating or increasing from the software crisis.
getpokedagain 2y ago
This is very close I think. In a way it is a business crisis, in that business directs software engineering not science or academia nor some physical constraint. A real estate developer would probably promise you a ten story building made of straw if you seemed willing to pay but a civil engineer will never go make it because they listen to the physics and ethical rules of the trade mostly. For some reason software engineers bend over and say yes sir when faced with a similar situation. Perhaps looking at Boeing the same is becoming true of other engineering specialties as well.

by bsoles 2y ago

nicce 2y ago

> I agree wholeheartedly that an internet connected toaster is a very stupid idea, but our ability to build such a system shows, if anything, a triumph of software (and hardware), not a crisis We have managed to build systems with software that "triumph" for a very long time. Look no further than Voyager 1. A technical masterpiece which still works. But fundamentally, about the toaster; we see these things in toasters because there are so many abstractions and possibilities. It is easy to embed software for the toaster without having a legion of software developers from different fields. And it adds up and is the main issue of "unintended" usecases for toasters. Many from these cases are not depending from the developer. Developers do not even know about them or were not thinking about them because there were abstracted away. Overall system of the toaster can be so complex in these days, that no single person can understand it completely alone. But yes, the consumer part and that it is okay if toaster breaks, is indeed social problem. But likelihood of toasters breaking or doing something else than supposed to, could be originating or increasing from the software crisis.

getpokedagain 2y ago

This is very close I think. In a way it is a business crisis, in that business directs software engineering not science or academia nor some physical constraint. A real estate developer would probably promise you a ten story building made of straw if you seemed willing to pay but a civil engineer will never go make it because they listen to the physics and ethical rules of the trade mostly. For some reason software engineers bend over and say yes sir when faced with a similar situation. Perhaps looking at Boeing the same is becoming true of other engineering specialties as well.