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I regularly had arguments on homeopathy with some close family members. I stopped, because belief in homeopathy is the same kind of belief as belief in flat-ear

I regularly had arguments on homeopathy with some close family members. I stopped, because belief in homeopathy is the same kind of belief as belief in flat-earth, and you can't be cured off it. People get seduced by a somewhat internal logic. They get a fuzzy feeling of superiority in their discovery that the mainstream ignores. If you point out the absolute lack of evidence of any of what they believe in, it's because pharma is silencing them. They are excited to be enlightened, because only they can see how crooked big pharma is: they need you to be sick so you can buy their "allopathic medicine" (derogatory calling of drugs that actually work), so they're trying to kill homeopathy who would really save you ; which to be fair is not helped by the fact that pharmaceutical companies are indeed crooked and want you to be sick. I don't think there's any volume that can be said on homeopathy that will convince anyone who already believes in it that it's all a scam.

thinkingtoilet 2y ago
There's more to it. I am someone who has had medical problems that took years to diagnose. I had doctors who were terrific and I had doctors be almost accusatory when the tests they ran came back negative. When the medical establishment fails you it's tough, and there plenty of snake oil salesmen who are happy to sell you a cure THE MEDICAL ESTABLISHMENT DOESN'T WANT YOU TO KNOW ABOUT!!! I can see the allure when there's literally no one else to turn to.
strongpigeon 2y ago
I've heard of a strategy that can help some people challenge their belief for issues like homeopathy or flat earth. The idea is to ask them to rate on a scale of 1-10 the strength of their belief. As in, "how convinced are you on a scale of 1-10 that the earth is flat?". If they give anything less than 10, you then follow up by asking them why that score and why not a higher or lower score as in (if they said e.g., 8/10): "What would make it a 9/10 or a 10/10?". Basically having them "ironman" the opposite side of the argument can cause people to start to think more objectively about the issue. However, if the person says 10/10 there apparently isn't much that can be done. I've never tried this myself as I don't have any flat earther or homeopathy believers in my entourage, but it does seem to make sense and I've used this to question some of my beliefs myself. Not saying it would work with your family members either though.
- antisthenes 2y ago
  Here's a better strategy: don't waste time on engaging them on that topic. The best possible outcome is that you waste a ton of your time (and theirs), and convince them that the Earth isn't flat. Did anyone benefit? If we chose to try and convince people about everything they are wrong about, we'd be endlessly debating about every minor thing that's already been established and replicated.
  - Sirizarry 2y ago
    I dunno man there are plenty of smart people that have simply been misled or are in circumstances where they’re more easily prone to fall into these kinds of traps. Nice and good people too. It feels cruel to not spend at least a little time helping them help themselves. At the end of the day of course it’s your decision what you wanna waste time on but it’s I find it’s a worthwhile pursuit for those I’ve bonded with
  - skrebbel 2y ago
    If it’s someone you love it might not be a waste of time, esp if you can pull it off in a constructive way that makes both people feel respected and appreciated regardless of where the discussion goes.
  - plorkyeran 2y ago
    Yes, convincing my family members to take actual medicine rather than rely on homeopathic remedies has benefits.
ryandrake 2y ago
> They get a fuzzy feeling of superiority in their discovery that the mainstream ignores. I mean, this is the allure of all quackery, conspiracy theories, cults, and other forms of "alternative" facts: The mainstream doesn't want you to know this secret that I'm sharing with you! Doctors hate this one simple trick! Your financial planner is lying to you, but if you buy my seminar, you'll learn the truth! The government is silencing us through mainstream social media, but if you come to Social Network Blah, you will be able to hear the truth! Employment is a scam, but if you join Amway you can learn the real truth about business and your own boss! My religion offers the truth that the rest hide from you! Somehow, human beings have become vulnerable to "Truth FOMO" and when these guys really get their hooks into you and you start to base your very identity on their truth, well, you can't back out of it without invalidating your entire identity.

thinkingtoilet 2y ago

There's more to it. I am someone who has had medical problems that took years to diagnose. I had doctors who were terrific and I had doctors be almost accusatory when the tests they ran came back negative. When the medical establishment fails you it's tough, and there plenty of snake oil salesmen who are happy to sell you a cure THE MEDICAL ESTABLISHMENT DOESN'T WANT YOU TO KNOW ABOUT!!! I can see the allure when there's literally no one else to turn to.

strongpigeon 2y ago

I've heard of a strategy that can help some people challenge their belief for issues like homeopathy or flat earth. The idea is to ask them to rate on a scale of 1-10 the strength of their belief. As in, "how convinced are you on a scale of 1-10 that the earth is flat?". If they give anything less than 10, you then follow up by asking them why that score and why not a higher or lower score as in (if they said e.g., 8/10): "What would make it a 9/10 or a 10/10?". Basically having them "ironman" the opposite side of the argument can cause people to start to think more objectively about the issue. However, if the person says 10/10 there apparently isn't much that can be done. I've never tried this myself as I don't have any flat earther or homeopathy believers in my entourage, but it does seem to make sense and I've used this to question some of my beliefs myself. Not saying it would work with your family members either though.

antisthenes 2y ago
Here's a better strategy: don't waste time on engaging them on that topic. The best possible outcome is that you waste a ton of your time (and theirs), and convince them that the Earth isn't flat. Did anyone benefit? If we chose to try and convince people about everything they are wrong about, we'd be endlessly debating about every minor thing that's already been established and replicated.
- Sirizarry 2y ago
  I dunno man there are plenty of smart people that have simply been misled or are in circumstances where they’re more easily prone to fall into these kinds of traps. Nice and good people too. It feels cruel to not spend at least a little time helping them help themselves. At the end of the day of course it’s your decision what you wanna waste time on but it’s I find it’s a worthwhile pursuit for those I’ve bonded with
- skrebbel 2y ago
  If it’s someone you love it might not be a waste of time, esp if you can pull it off in a constructive way that makes both people feel respected and appreciated regardless of where the discussion goes.
- plorkyeran 2y ago
  Yes, convincing my family members to take actual medicine rather than rely on homeopathic remedies has benefits.

ryandrake 2y ago

> They get a fuzzy feeling of superiority in their discovery that the mainstream ignores. I mean, this is the allure of all quackery, conspiracy theories, cults, and other forms of "alternative" facts: The mainstream doesn't want you to know this secret that I'm sharing with you! Doctors hate this one simple trick! Your financial planner is lying to you, but if you buy my seminar, you'll learn the truth! The government is silencing us through mainstream social media, but if you come to Social Network Blah, you will be able to hear the truth! Employment is a scam, but if you join Amway you can learn the real truth about business and your own boss! My religion offers the truth that the rest hide from you! Somehow, human beings have become vulnerable to "Truth FOMO" and when these guys really get their hooks into you and you start to base your very identity on their truth, well, you can't back out of it without invalidating your entire identity.