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Recorder doesn't just confuse him, it confused me as well the first time I heard the word. I'd always called the musical instrument a flute, which was apparentl

by ars 2y ago

Recorder doesn't just confuse him, it confused me as well the first time I heard the word. I'd always called the musical instrument a flute, which was apparently wrong, although I don't know why since tons of other instruments that look just like a recorder are called flutes. Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recorder_(musical_instrument)#Etymology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recorder_(musical_instrument)#... has a full etymology, which contradicts the article.

radford-neal 2y ago
A recorder is a flute, more specifically, a fipple flute. But there are other fipple flutes, such as tin whistles. (One distinguishing feature of a recorder is the use of the thumb hole to control octaves.) So calling a recorder a "flute" isn't exactly wrong, but is under-specific. Also, nowadays transverse flutes are often called just "flutes", inviting confusion if you call a recorder a flute. The etymology you reference seems speculative, not really contradicting the article's claim that the etymology isn't clear.
OJFord 2y ago
What's called a flute that looks like a recorder? (Don't say 'flutes'..) I can think of oboes and clarinets, which are called that not flute. I'm no musician but to me a flute goes to the side; I assume per sibling comment that's what a 'transverse flute' is.
- IggleSniggle 2y ago
  Flutes that have fipples, like penny whistles (or recorders), vessel flutes (some of which have fipples, like an ocarina), end-blown flutes without a fipple like the xiao (which also happens to have a side-blown varient). There are many, but the word is somewhat amorphous. Personally, I would call almost anything that uses a Helmholtz resonator instigated with the mouth as the initial oscillator a "flute," but will also take it to mean "orchestral flute" based on guessed context in conversation. The thing that makes clarinets and oboes not flutes is that they have one or more reeds rather than producing a direct Helmholtz resonator.
  - mrob 2y ago
    Although "Helmholtz resonator" is often used to describe a broader range of resonators than Helmholtz's original design, I think it's dubious to call fipple flutes "Helmholtz resonators". The fipple mechanism sets up an oscillating sheet of air going into and out of the pipe, which isn't present in traditional Helmholtz resonators. See: http://www.colinpykett.org.uk/how_the_flue_pipe_speaks.htm http://www.colinpykett.org.uk/how_the_flue_pipe_speaks.htm I think a better definition of a flute is a mouth-blown wind instrument with no vibrating parts.
    - IggleSniggle 2y ago
      Superb correction, thanks!
    - mrob 2y ago
      I just remembered there are East Asian flutes that use vibrating membranes to modify the sound: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dizi_(instrument) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dizi_(instrument) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daegeum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daegeum These are uncontroversially flutes, so the definition would have to be "mouth-blown wind instruments that generate a tone without using vibrating parts".

by ars 2y ago

radford-neal 2y ago

A recorder is a flute, more specifically, a fipple flute. But there are other fipple flutes, such as tin whistles. (One distinguishing feature of a recorder is the use of the thumb hole to control octaves.) So calling a recorder a "flute" isn't exactly wrong, but is under-specific. Also, nowadays transverse flutes are often called just "flutes", inviting confusion if you call a recorder a flute. The etymology you reference seems speculative, not really contradicting the article's claim that the etymology isn't clear.

OJFord 2y ago

What's called a flute that looks like a recorder? (Don't say 'flutes'..) I can think of oboes and clarinets, which are called that not flute. I'm no musician but to me a flute goes to the side; I assume per sibling comment that's what a 'transverse flute' is.

IggleSniggle 2y ago
Flutes that have fipples, like penny whistles (or recorders), vessel flutes (some of which have fipples, like an ocarina), end-blown flutes without a fipple like the xiao (which also happens to have a side-blown varient). There are many, but the word is somewhat amorphous. Personally, I would call almost anything that uses a Helmholtz resonator instigated with the mouth as the initial oscillator a "flute," but will also take it to mean "orchestral flute" based on guessed context in conversation. The thing that makes clarinets and oboes not flutes is that they have one or more reeds rather than producing a direct Helmholtz resonator.
- mrob 2y ago
  Although "Helmholtz resonator" is often used to describe a broader range of resonators than Helmholtz's original design, I think it's dubious to call fipple flutes "Helmholtz resonators". The fipple mechanism sets up an oscillating sheet of air going into and out of the pipe, which isn't present in traditional Helmholtz resonators. See: http://www.colinpykett.org.uk/how_the_flue_pipe_speaks.htm http://www.colinpykett.org.uk/how_the_flue_pipe_speaks.htm I think a better definition of a flute is a mouth-blown wind instrument with no vibrating parts.
  - IggleSniggle 2y ago
    Superb correction, thanks!
  - mrob 2y ago
    I just remembered there are East Asian flutes that use vibrating membranes to modify the sound: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dizi_(instrument) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dizi_(instrument) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daegeum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daegeum These are uncontroversially flutes, so the definition would have to be "mouth-blown wind instruments that generate a tone without using vibrating parts".