7 ms·

Adderall Shortage Caused by DEA Quotas on Controlled Substances

58 points by zackmorris 2y ago

whalesalad 2y ago
[flagged]
apsec112 2y ago
"About 90% of the diverted immediate-release stimulants are used by a narrow demographic: white male college students" I'll eat my hat if this is actually true. US college students are about half white right now. The other half, plus all women, plus all people who don't go to college, plus everyone who isn't 18 to 22, are 10% of the illicit-stimulant market combined? This has to be something made-up to attack what they feel is an outgroup.
- throwup238 2y ago
  It's "diverted immediate-release stimulants", which usually means patients who sell their legally prescribed drugs instead of taking them. It's not immediately believable without looking at their methodology but I don't think it's all that farfetched. When I was in college the stuff was at least $5/pill with prices rising as high as $20/pill around finals. I suspect it's mostly just socioeconomic bias as it was an easy way for students to earn extra income while having their own supply. Maybe doctors are giving white males extra scrutiny when they ask for their own prescription? It'd be interesting if other demographics preferred non-immediate release stimulants like Vyvanse or less abusable ADHD drugs because they were easier to source without going black market.
  - IIAOPSW 2y ago
    Reasons to be skeptical: 1. white, male, college (at least middle class) is exactly the demographic that the system would have provided the benefit of a script to since middle school if they wanted it. Reasons to believe: 1. this is what men do instead of therapy.
    - throwup238 2y ago
      > 1. white, male, college (at least middle class) is exactly the demographic that the system would have provided the benefit of a script to since middle school if they wanted it. Yeah I felt weird writing that. That said, if they’re abusing it their legal prescription is probably not enough. My doctor gave scripts like candy and even he would only give 60 20mg pill per month in addition to the 30 days of 70mg Vyvanse. If the college kids are snorting it, it goes fast. Also just realized that it could be because of exposure to the drug in frats.
      - verdverm 2y ago
        > That said, if they’re abusing it their legal prescription is probably not enough. Adderall is also called kiddie cocaine. It's used as a party drug by crushing it up and snorting it before and during the binge drinking that is also common. Note that only the quick release Adderall works this way and many other ADD drugs cannot be used as a stimulant like this
        buffington 2y ago
        It's so weird to me that people use Adderall recreationally. It's as "recreational" in my mind as functional shoes are. I usually need them, but they're usually not what makes an activity fun. How is crushing up Adderall and snorting it even worth doing? I've accidentally taken my "normal" Adderall twice and it's an extremely uncomfortable experience. The last place I'd want to be in that state would be at a party, getting drunk. Sitting in a quiet place and rocking/sweating/puking until it's done is more what comes to mind. For what it's worth, there's no "quick release" Adderall. There's a normal kind, and an "extended release" kind (officially Adderall XR). The latter encapsulates little beads of the drug in coatings that dissolve at different rates, allowing the dose to be spread out over a longer period of time. What I think you're referring to when you say "quick release" is the non-XR variant of the drug. The drug found in Adderall XR is identical to that of Adderall with the exception of the coatings on the beads. I think crushing up those beads would likely work the same as crushing up an Adderall tablet, assuming the coatings on the beads were also suitably crushed. Not something I'll be testing any time soon though.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
wannacboatmovie 2y ago
[flagged]
- Someone1234 2y ago
  It may be over-prescribed but calling it "legal meth" and those who take it "addicts" is unconstructive at best.
  - pcdoodle 2y ago
    I had a customer offer me a pill once while touring his warehouse along with a stick of gum (said it kicks in faster). In about 15 minutes, I was shocked they give this stuff to kids. It's very close to meth.
    - whalesalad 2y ago
      it's literally the same thing. anyone who claims otherwise is uninformed.
      - halfcat 2y ago
        You’re not making a point by saying they’re the same. It can be true that they’re exactly the same, and still be beneficial for people to take it. This is true for most medications. The same dose of insulin that saves the life of one person, would be life threatening to another.
      - November_Echo 2y ago
        > it's literally the same thing. anyone who claims otherwise is uninformed. It's also extremely emotional language. I'm curious what your issue is with legally prescribed stimulats? Stimulats allow me to be a functional human being who can do things like wash the dishes after dinner or put my clothes out to dry. Can you imagine not being able to function at even that basic level? It's literally suicide inducing.
    - _fs 2y ago
      Yes, someone without ADHD will have a vastly different experience to someone with ADHD. People without almost always talk about the burst of energy and happiness (flow of dopamine) following by a wired effect (heart racing, poor sleep, etc), while people with ADHD tend to experience a calming, quieting effect.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
from-nibly 2y ago
Nothing feels (in my personal life don't @ me) as much of an attack on my neurodivergence as the nonsense that is getting medication for my ADHD. I have to go to a doctors appointment to get a prescriprion, I have to call to get that prescription filled, I can't fill the prescription early so I don't run out, I have to go to the pharmacy to pick it up. All so we can pretend that college kids wont be able to obtain a substance that is arguably safer than caffeine. (They sell Tylenol over the counter and you can kill yourself with that even easier don't @ me). If you don't know, all of the steps listed above are what my medication helps me accomplish. Its like they designed a wheelchair store with a full flight of stairs in order to get in.
- phaedrus 2y ago
  This rigamarole is why I stopped taking ADHD medicine. I waited too long to make an appointment once (because, you know, ADHD), and then ran into a problem that my doctor's office had reorganized duties to give the renewing prescriptions role to a newly hired nurse aid without considering that he can't refill controlled substances. I kinda wondered how that could work, but either because was new to the job or overconfident he assured me I was wrong about the legality of that and he definitely would get the prescription scrip for me. By the time he / the doctor's office realized actually no, he can't refill my ADHD medication, my doctor was out and a four day weekend would soon begin. At this point I was already a few days off the meds and going through withdrawals, which got worse over the weekend. By the time Tuesday rolled around I'd essentially been forced to "quit" cold turkey, and so I was like, what is the point of re-starting this now I've gone through the hardest part of getting off it?
  - whalesalad 2y ago
    Same. it was always a nightmare. hated the way everything needed to be literally scheduled down to the very day. prescribers would get shit wrong all the time, there would inevitably days without. I was using an online service at one point (done, the worst of the worst) and they just straight up ignored my pleas for help for 3 solid weeks. when they finally came back and said sorry we fucked up I had basically decided to just quit, and quitting cold turkey is never fun. After years of being on/off I decided to say fuck this for once and for all and will never touch them again. Until they are available in vending machines - which I firmly believe is how they should be available. People cry about the comparison to "legal meth" but that is literally what it is. There is no difference. Your dealer is replaced by a licensed psychyatrist but at the end of the day they are just a dealer with a nice office and a certificate from a university.
thebigspacefuck 2y ago
Dr Dodson has been helping pharma companies push these drugs for a long time: https://archive.ph/2024.04.17-223802/https://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/15/health/the-selling-of-attention-deficit-disorder.html https://archive.ph/2024.04.17-223802/https://www.nytimes.com... Full disclosure, he was my doc and diagnosed me with ADHD. I kind of think the whole thing is a scam now in large part due to this.
- buffington 2y ago
  Adderall has been significantly beneficial in my life, for which I'm grateful, but yeah. There are problems, both with the drug, and with how easily[1] it's prescribed. That anyone has ever said the drugs are benign is insane. I've been on Adderall for close to 20 years now, and there are consequences. Heart problems are the biggie. I'm very fit, eat healthy, don't smoke, run a few miles a week, bike, hike, etc, and there are some alarming issues with my heart that are likely due to Adderall use. Maybe I'd have the same issues even without Adderall, but odds are, it's the Adderall. [1] "easily" is a tricky word here. It's hard to get Adderall, as the article describes pretty well, if you're someone like me - someone who actually uses the drug for its intended purposes. My experiences have often been worse than what the article describes. Because of the shortage, my local pharmacies require that you bring a physical copy of the prescription to them, with a fill date of the exact date you're trying to get it filled. One day too late? They need a new prescription. One day too early? They need a new prescription. You're also required to pick up the same day. If you don't pick up the same day, they'll send the pills back to inventory so they can fill for all other people stuck in the same boat as me. I've not been able to consistently fill meds that help me function for at least 3 years now. Maybe if I'd turned to the black market, I wouldn't have this problem?
jameskraus 2y ago
It seems this article is trying argue in favor of deregulation of production of drugs, such that drug companies can more freely produce to fill demand. Is that necessarily a good solution with addictive substances like amphetamines? We saw that production and consumption of opiates was far too high, eventually leading to the bankruptcy of Purdue Pharma. In that case it seems like the DEA was not taking a strong enough regulatory role, leading to much harm to Americans. Are we facing an upcoming epidemic of amphetamine addiction and the DEA is holding it back, or is the DEA causing more harm through regulation of production? It’s impossible to tell from this article alone, but it seems clear we need at least some regulation of production, since the pharmaceutical industry cannot completely self regulate.
- jrflowers 2y ago
  > Are we facing an upcoming epidemic of amphetamine addiction Illicit methamphetamine is already easier to get and cheaper than adderall for virtually anybody motivated enough in the US.
  - fleischhauf 2y ago
    I was under the impression that the opioid crisis was partially due to doctors just prescribing them and claiming they are an easy pain killer that is not really addictive
    - jrflowers 2y ago
      Amphetamines and opioids are very different classes of drugs. For one thing, ADHD is a much more narrow diagnosis than pain (the latter being something every single human experiences), for another amphetamine sulphate has been available as a generic for a long time so there’s much less incentive for a company like Purdue/Insys to lie/cheat/bribe doctors en masse in the same way.
drewbug01 2y ago
Something is very weird with that site and adblockers. Here’s an archive link if you’re having issues loading it, like I was: https://archive.is/sZglD https://archive.is/sZglD
annie_muss 2y ago
The restrictions on ADHD medicine where I live are incredible. I have to have a special registration card, separate from any other medical insurance or ID. When I get fill the prescription I must present photo ID, can only get a very limited amount etc. If my medical details insurance change for in any (for example an address change) my ability to fill the prescription is instantly cancelled until those details are updated (even though for any other medication this is not the case. For other medication there is a simple way to handle these changes retroactively, but not for ADHD medication). Multiple times I've been without medication because of these traps. Not only that, they are rare and unusual enough that health care professionals don't know about them and sometimes give you incorrect advice.

58 points by zackmorris 2y ago

[flagged]

"About 90% of the diverted immediate-release stimulants are used by a narrow demographic: white male college students" I'll eat my hat if this is actually true. US college students are about half white right now. The other half, plus all women, plus all people who don't go to college, plus everyone who isn't 18 to 22, are 10% of the illicit-stimulant market combined? This has to be something made-up to attack what they feel is an outgroup.

throwup238 2y ago
It's "diverted immediate-release stimulants", which usually means patients who sell their legally prescribed drugs instead of taking them. It's not immediately believable without looking at their methodology but I don't think it's all that farfetched. When I was in college the stuff was at least $5/pill with prices rising as high as $20/pill around finals. I suspect it's mostly just socioeconomic bias as it was an easy way for students to earn extra income while having their own supply. Maybe doctors are giving white males extra scrutiny when they ask for their own prescription? It'd be interesting if other demographics preferred non-immediate release stimulants like Vyvanse or less abusable ADHD drugs because they were easier to source without going black market.
- IIAOPSW 2y ago
  Reasons to be skeptical: 1. white, male, college (at least middle class) is exactly the demographic that the system would have provided the benefit of a script to since middle school if they wanted it. Reasons to believe: 1. this is what men do instead of therapy.
  - throwup238 2y ago
    > 1. white, male, college (at least middle class) is exactly the demographic that the system would have provided the benefit of a script to since middle school if they wanted it. Yeah I felt weird writing that. That said, if they’re abusing it their legal prescription is probably not enough. My doctor gave scripts like candy and even he would only give 60 20mg pill per month in addition to the 30 days of 70mg Vyvanse. If the college kids are snorting it, it goes fast. Also just realized that it could be because of exposure to the drug in frats.
    - verdverm 2y ago
      > That said, if they’re abusing it their legal prescription is probably not enough. Adderall is also called kiddie cocaine. It's used as a party drug by crushing it up and snorting it before and during the binge drinking that is also common. Note that only the quick release Adderall works this way and many other ADD drugs cannot be used as a stimulant like this
      - buffington 2y ago
        It's so weird to me that people use Adderall recreationally. It's as "recreational" in my mind as functional shoes are. I usually need them, but they're usually not what makes an activity fun. How is crushing up Adderall and snorting it even worth doing? I've accidentally taken my "normal" Adderall twice and it's an extremely uncomfortable experience. The last place I'd want to be in that state would be at a party, getting drunk. Sitting in a quiet place and rocking/sweating/puking until it's done is more what comes to mind. For what it's worth, there's no "quick release" Adderall. There's a normal kind, and an "extended release" kind (officially Adderall XR). The latter encapsulates little beads of the drug in coatings that dissolve at different rates, allowing the dose to be spread out over a longer period of time. What I think you're referring to when you say "quick release" is the non-XR variant of the drug. The drug found in Adderall XR is identical to that of Adderall with the exception of the coatings on the beads. I think crushing up those beads would likely work the same as crushing up an Adderall tablet, assuming the coatings on the beads were also suitably crushed. Not something I'll be testing any time soon though.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

wannacboatmovie 2y ago

[flagged]

Someone1234 2y ago
It may be over-prescribed but calling it "legal meth" and those who take it "addicts" is unconstructive at best.
- pcdoodle 2y ago
  I had a customer offer me a pill once while touring his warehouse along with a stick of gum (said it kicks in faster). In about 15 minutes, I was shocked they give this stuff to kids. It's very close to meth.
  - whalesalad 2y ago
    it's literally the same thing. anyone who claims otherwise is uninformed.
    - halfcat 2y ago
      You’re not making a point by saying they’re the same. It can be true that they’re exactly the same, and still be beneficial for people to take it. This is true for most medications. The same dose of insulin that saves the life of one person, would be life threatening to another.
    - November_Echo 2y ago
      > it's literally the same thing. anyone who claims otherwise is uninformed. It's also extremely emotional language. I'm curious what your issue is with legally prescribed stimulats? Stimulats allow me to be a functional human being who can do things like wash the dishes after dinner or put my clothes out to dry. Can you imagine not being able to function at even that basic level? It's literally suicide inducing.
  - _fs 2y ago
    Yes, someone without ADHD will have a vastly different experience to someone with ADHD. People without almost always talk about the burst of energy and happiness (flow of dopamine) following by a wired effect (heart racing, poor sleep, etc), while people with ADHD tend to experience a calming, quieting effect.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

from-nibly 2y ago

Nothing feels (in my personal life don't @ me) as much of an attack on my neurodivergence as the nonsense that is getting medication for my ADHD. I have to go to a doctors appointment to get a prescriprion, I have to call to get that prescription filled, I can't fill the prescription early so I don't run out, I have to go to the pharmacy to pick it up. All so we can pretend that college kids wont be able to obtain a substance that is arguably safer than caffeine. (They sell Tylenol over the counter and you can kill yourself with that even easier don't @ me). If you don't know, all of the steps listed above are what my medication helps me accomplish. Its like they designed a wheelchair store with a full flight of stairs in order to get in.

phaedrus 2y ago
This rigamarole is why I stopped taking ADHD medicine. I waited too long to make an appointment once (because, you know, ADHD), and then ran into a problem that my doctor's office had reorganized duties to give the renewing prescriptions role to a newly hired nurse aid without considering that he can't refill controlled substances. I kinda wondered how that could work, but either because was new to the job or overconfident he assured me I was wrong about the legality of that and he definitely would get the prescription scrip for me. By the time he / the doctor's office realized actually no, he can't refill my ADHD medication, my doctor was out and a four day weekend would soon begin. At this point I was already a few days off the meds and going through withdrawals, which got worse over the weekend. By the time Tuesday rolled around I'd essentially been forced to "quit" cold turkey, and so I was like, what is the point of re-starting this now I've gone through the hardest part of getting off it?
- whalesalad 2y ago
  Same. it was always a nightmare. hated the way everything needed to be literally scheduled down to the very day. prescribers would get shit wrong all the time, there would inevitably days without. I was using an online service at one point (done, the worst of the worst) and they just straight up ignored my pleas for help for 3 solid weeks. when they finally came back and said sorry we fucked up I had basically decided to just quit, and quitting cold turkey is never fun. After years of being on/off I decided to say fuck this for once and for all and will never touch them again. Until they are available in vending machines - which I firmly believe is how they should be available. People cry about the comparison to "legal meth" but that is literally what it is. There is no difference. Your dealer is replaced by a licensed psychyatrist but at the end of the day they are just a dealer with a nice office and a certificate from a university.

thebigspacefuck 2y ago

Dr Dodson has been helping pharma companies push these drugs for a long time: https://archive.ph/2024.04.17-223802/https://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/15/health/the-selling-of-attention-deficit-disorder.html https://archive.ph/2024.04.17-223802/https://www.nytimes.com... Full disclosure, he was my doc and diagnosed me with ADHD. I kind of think the whole thing is a scam now in large part due to this.

buffington 2y ago
Adderall has been significantly beneficial in my life, for which I'm grateful, but yeah. There are problems, both with the drug, and with how easily[1] it's prescribed. That anyone has ever said the drugs are benign is insane. I've been on Adderall for close to 20 years now, and there are consequences. Heart problems are the biggie. I'm very fit, eat healthy, don't smoke, run a few miles a week, bike, hike, etc, and there are some alarming issues with my heart that are likely due to Adderall use. Maybe I'd have the same issues even without Adderall, but odds are, it's the Adderall. [1] "easily" is a tricky word here. It's hard to get Adderall, as the article describes pretty well, if you're someone like me - someone who actually uses the drug for its intended purposes. My experiences have often been worse than what the article describes. Because of the shortage, my local pharmacies require that you bring a physical copy of the prescription to them, with a fill date of the exact date you're trying to get it filled. One day too late? They need a new prescription. One day too early? They need a new prescription. You're also required to pick up the same day. If you don't pick up the same day, they'll send the pills back to inventory so they can fill for all other people stuck in the same boat as me. I've not been able to consistently fill meds that help me function for at least 3 years now. Maybe if I'd turned to the black market, I wouldn't have this problem?

jameskraus 2y ago

It seems this article is trying argue in favor of deregulation of production of drugs, such that drug companies can more freely produce to fill demand. Is that necessarily a good solution with addictive substances like amphetamines? We saw that production and consumption of opiates was far too high, eventually leading to the bankruptcy of Purdue Pharma. In that case it seems like the DEA was not taking a strong enough regulatory role, leading to much harm to Americans. Are we facing an upcoming epidemic of amphetamine addiction and the DEA is holding it back, or is the DEA causing more harm through regulation of production? It’s impossible to tell from this article alone, but it seems clear we need at least some regulation of production, since the pharmaceutical industry cannot completely self regulate.

jrflowers 2y ago
> Are we facing an upcoming epidemic of amphetamine addiction Illicit methamphetamine is already easier to get and cheaper than adderall for virtually anybody motivated enough in the US.
- fleischhauf 2y ago
  I was under the impression that the opioid crisis was partially due to doctors just prescribing them and claiming they are an easy pain killer that is not really addictive
  - jrflowers 2y ago
    Amphetamines and opioids are very different classes of drugs. For one thing, ADHD is a much more narrow diagnosis than pain (the latter being something every single human experiences), for another amphetamine sulphate has been available as a generic for a long time so there’s much less incentive for a company like Purdue/Insys to lie/cheat/bribe doctors en masse in the same way.

drewbug01 2y ago

Something is very weird with that site and adblockers. Here’s an archive link if you’re having issues loading it, like I was: https://archive.is/sZglD https://archive.is/sZglD

annie_muss 2y ago

The restrictions on ADHD medicine where I live are incredible. I have to have a special registration card, separate from any other medical insurance or ID. When I get fill the prescription I must present photo ID, can only get a very limited amount etc. If my medical details insurance change for in any (for example an address change) my ability to fill the prescription is instantly cancelled until those details are updated (even though for any other medication this is not the case. For other medication there is a simple way to handle these changes retroactively, but not for ADHD medication). Multiple times I've been without medication because of these traps. Not only that, they are rare and unusual enough that health care professionals don't know about them and sometimes give you incorrect advice.