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>But what's the alternative? Debate. An opposition with political power. Separation of powers. Federalism. This is an ancient problem, which has been confront

>But what's the alternative? Debate. An opposition with political power. Separation of powers. Federalism. This is an ancient problem, which has been confronted by different societies in many ways. In no society has "banning lying" ever worked and it never will. Politics is about disagreement about facts.

viraptor 2y ago
You can get a debate of multiple people full of lies. Having a debate doesn't change the content. > In no society has "banning lying" ever worked Have you got a specific case in mind? I couldn't find one and multiple articles about Wales refer to it as the first country. So where has it not worked before?
- constantcrying 2y ago
  >Have you got a specific case in mind? Yes, namely that in all of political history I am not aware of a single case where an idea this awful was even attempted.
  - viraptor 2y ago
    I see. So what you meant was "it was never tried" rather than «In no society has "banning lying" ever worked», which is a very different thing.
zimpenfish 2y ago
> Politics is about disagreement about facts. That only works when both sides have respect for the truth and facts and disagree in good faith. When one side becomes unhinged and unmoored from reality (cf Trump, UK Tories, etc.), things go horribly wrong.
Bostonian 2y ago
It's also a disagreement about values. For example, voters who align with the two political parties know what abortion is but disagree about when it should be legal.
Towaway69 2y ago
Constructive debate - debate that doesn’t criticise the messenger, debate that constructively searches for optimal solution for all and not just the few.
mandmandam 2y ago
> In no society has "banning lying" ever worked and it never will. Politics is about disagreement about facts. Many political systems implement ethical guidelines and laws to minimize lying, especially in formal settings like courtrooms and official statements. Why hold politics to a lesser standard? > In no society has "banning lying" ever worked and it never will There have been periods and societies where strong cultural or legal norms against lying have fostered more honest political environments. Ancient Athens had ostracism, where citizens could vote to exile those seen as harmful to the state, including habitual liars. There used to be laws about lying through your teeth on news broadcasts.. While not perfect, removing them hasn't exactly been healthy for democracy, has it?

viraptor 2y ago

You can get a debate of multiple people full of lies. Having a debate doesn't change the content. > In no society has "banning lying" ever worked Have you got a specific case in mind? I couldn't find one and multiple articles about Wales refer to it as the first country. So where has it not worked before?

constantcrying 2y ago
>Have you got a specific case in mind? Yes, namely that in all of political history I am not aware of a single case where an idea this awful was even attempted.
- viraptor 2y ago
  I see. So what you meant was "it was never tried" rather than «In no society has "banning lying" ever worked», which is a very different thing.

zimpenfish 2y ago

> Politics is about disagreement about facts. That only works when both sides have respect for the truth and facts and disagree in good faith. When one side becomes unhinged and unmoored from reality (cf Trump, UK Tories, etc.), things go horribly wrong.

Bostonian 2y ago

It's also a disagreement about values. For example, voters who align with the two political parties know what abortion is but disagree about when it should be legal.

Towaway69 2y ago

Constructive debate - debate that doesn’t criticise the messenger, debate that constructively searches for optimal solution for all and not just the few.

mandmandam 2y ago

> In no society has "banning lying" ever worked and it never will. Politics is about disagreement about facts. Many political systems implement ethical guidelines and laws to minimize lying, especially in formal settings like courtrooms and official statements. Why hold politics to a lesser standard? > In no society has "banning lying" ever worked and it never will There have been periods and societies where strong cultural or legal norms against lying have fostered more honest political environments. Ancient Athens had ostracism, where citizens could vote to exile those seen as harmful to the state, including habitual liars. There used to be laws about lying through your teeth on news broadcasts.. While not perfect, removing them hasn't exactly been healthy for democracy, has it?