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> When making charts for the user: 1) never use seaborn, 2) give each chart its own distinct plot (no subplots), and 3) never set any specific colors – unless e
by joshstrange 2y ago
> When making charts for the user: 1) never use seaborn, 2) give each chart its own distinct plot (no subplots), and 3) never set any specific colors – unless explicitly asked to by the user. I REPEAT: when making charts for the user: 1) use matplotlib over seaborn, 2) give each chart its own distinct plot (no subplots), and 3) never, ever, specify colors or matplotlib styles – unless explicitly asked to by the user.
This kind of stuff always makes me a little sad. One thing I've loved about computers my whole life is how they are predictable and consistent. Don't get me wrong, I use and quite enjoy LLMs and understand that their variability is huge strength (and I know about `temperature`), I just wish there was a way to "talk to"/instruct the LLM and not need to do stuff like this ("I REPEAT").
- dangus 2y agoYou’d think there would at least be some kind of flag for an unbreakable rule rather than talking to it like it’s a toddler.
- Maken 2y agoThis only reinforces the idea NN are complete black boxes.
- meowface 2y agoNot completely: https://www.anthropic.com/research/mapping-mind-language-model https://www.anthropic.com/research/mapping-mind-language-mod... Biological neural networks are also still largely black boxes to us. But they and ANNs won't be forever, even if it takes a long time.
- Maken 2y agoI don't mean they are impossible to understand, but that we are just not there yet. I am confident that at some point we'll have "real" LLM engineering rather than "prompt" engineering.
- Bluestein 2y ago(My first thought was, actually, that it just might "be" a toddler. Cognitively at least ...)
- weinzierl 2y agoSame, and I am even creeped out by the fact that the combination of repetition with shouting is what is necessary to get the machine do what you want.
- Maken 2y agoI am baffled by this. I mean, even the creators of the LLMs lack any tool to influence its inner workings other than CAPITALIZING the instructions. And at best they can hope it follows the guidelines.
- YeahThisIsMe 2y agoThe next step is pretending to count to three if it doesn't follow the instructions.
- Bluestein 2y agoSystem Prompt Library: "Beltbuckle" :/
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- meowface 2y agoI know you're joking, but I bet that actually would work well here.
- ziggyzecat 2y agoIt does, I told Claude to get his shit together last night and it actually finished the task with our last message.
- meowface 2y agoI'm not baffled, but I do find it a little surprising (yet endearing). A year or so before ChatGPT, I had integrated the GPT-3 API into my site and thought I was being clever by prefacing user prompts with my own static prompts with instructions like those. To see the company itself doing the same exact thing for their own system years later is amusing.
- weinzierl 2y agoI wonder what our means of escalation are from there, should the machine not obeye. I mean they already repeated the instruction in different words, they already resorted to shouting. What is next? Swearing? Intimidation? Threat of physical harm?
- fassssst 2y agoI see it the other way: it’s a whole new and very challenging way to program computers. It’s fun being in on it from the beginning so I can be like “back in my day” to junior devs in the future.
- carimura 2y agoI feel like there's plenty of challenge getting them to do what we want today even when they are predictable. Now throw in a personality and a little bit of a rebellious attitude? forget it.
- blooalien 2y ago“Back in my day” the best we had was ELIZA [0] (which was honestly not by a longshot nearly as convincing as some people claimed). - [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA
- jncfhnb 2y agoThere is. It’s just that we use LLMs like idiots. We should have more tooling to play with the vectors directly. But a lot of the literature is built around people playing with chat gpt, for which this is not an option as a business decision by open ai and nothing else. In the image gen space which is mildly better but still not great we would just assign a positive or negative weight to the item. E.g. (seaborn:-1.3). This is a bit harder in LLMs as designed because the prompting space is a back and forth conversation and not a description of itself. It would be nice if we could do both more cleanly separated. If you ever try to read a doc into chat gpt and get it to summarize n ideas in a single prompt, remember that this is open AI’s fault. What we should be doing is caching the vector representing the doc and then passing n separate queries to extract n separate ideas about the same vector.
- inciampati 2y agoThe problem is that transformers have a state space which includes attention over their input. Thus, it's very hard to manipulate. I think you're right, but it will require moving to more recurrent architectures.
- Bluestein 2y ago> We should have more tooling to play with the vectors directly. Ah! This.- PS. Who knows. This ("dealing with the vectors") might become analogous to open sourcing" some day ...
- jncfhnb 2y agoIt more or less is. This is something you can do with models that have open weights. People claiming those models are not “open source” really have no idea about the “preferred form” of “code” to change an LLM
- lossolo 2y agoYou compared it to diffusion models, which work entirely differently. Could you elaborate what you mean? I understand how transformers work and their implementation, but I'm unsure how with the current transformer architecture you can do what you described by "playing with vectors directly". Which vectors are you referring to? attention vectors?
- 01acheru 2y agoWhen building a toy demo where we taught GPT4 how to perform queries against a specific Postgres schema, we had to use a lot of those "I repeat", "AGAIN YOU MUST NOT", "please don't", etc. to avoid it embedding markdown, comments or random text in the responses where we just wanted SQL statements. It was a facepalming experience but in the end the results were actually pretty good.
- etrautmann 2y agoAny idea why not use seaborn?
- Zambyte 2y agoThe environment that they execute data visualization code probably has matplotlib but not seaborn installed. They probably explicitly call out to not use seaborn because without that it would use seaborn, and fail because that was not available in the environment.
- fragmede 2y agoThe best/worst one is that sometimes it'll refuse/be unable to do something, and I'll just say "yes you can" and it'll do what it just refused to do.
- yencabulator 2y agoAutocomplete on steroids. There aren't many training examples where "yes you can" was followed by further refusal.
- optimalsolver 2y ago>I REPEAT Skyking do not answer
- 01acheru 2y agoRemembering that poor guy always makes me sad...
- jeegsy 2y agoWhats the beef with seaborn?
- mensetmanusman 2y agoIt doesn’t make me sad, it makes me laugh, hard. No one would have predicted a future where programming is literally yelling at an LLM in all caps and repeating yourself like you’re yelling at a Sesame Street character. Reality is stranger than fiction.
- actsasbuffoon 2y agoOther fun options include telling it that you’ll pay it a tip if it does well, asking it to play a character who is an expert in the subject you want to know about, or telling it that something terrible will happen to someone if it does a bad job.