3 ms·

In some areas sure, but it’s really down to what you’re dedicating silicon to in terms of capabilities.

by dagmx 2y ago

jayd16 2y ago
How so? I'm fairly confused about what you're implying. Is Apple sacrificing mobile capabilities for better desktop capability, for example?
- dagmx 2y ago
  Yes. Assuming that a GPU size and node is similar between different GPUs, then different features which require silicon do it at the expense of other features. It’s always a balancing act. That’s effectively the big rub between NVIDIA and AMD today with raytracing + tensor support vs pure raster+compute throughput. Apple just went through a major GPU architecture change [1]. They focused a ton on maximizing for AAA game usage and followed the NVIDIA route to bias towards where they think things are going. At least according to the simplified architecture diagrams for both Apple graphics and Adreno, Apple has more raytracing silicon than Adreno. It also supports stuff that doesn’t require silicon but does have effects on GPU design like mesh shading or their new dynamic caching that improves occupancy for high draw count games with large uber shaders. Compared to Adreno that focused more on raw triangle throughput instead, but doesn’t scale as well with complexity. It performs much better on mobile benchmarks that fit that usage pattern, but falls behind with desktop benchmarks that follow Apple’s priorities. [1] https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/tech-talks/111375 https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/tech-talks/111375
  - jayd16 2y ago
    I think the tail is wagging the dog here. Those mobile workloads are tuned towards what currently works. If Apple or Qualcomm pull off desktop features in a mobile power envelope then the industry would happily adjust.
    - dagmx 2y ago
      I think that assumes that most games are targeting higher end graphics and are held back. The majority of played mobile games would be the same as they are today imho even if you could achieve 4090 performance in that power envelope.
  - ksec 2y ago
    I always thought the road to Ray-Tracing is wrong on mobile. At least in its current form or iteration. But then Apple decided to go with it, I would have expected they have something new. But turns out not.

In some areas sure, but it’s really down to what you’re dedicating silicon to in terms of capabilities.

by dagmx 2y ago

In some areas sure, but it’s really down to what you’re dedicating silicon to in terms of capabilities.

How so? I'm fairly confused about what you're implying. Is Apple sacrificing mobile capabilities for better desktop capability, for example?

dagmx 2y ago
Yes. Assuming that a GPU size and node is similar between different GPUs, then different features which require silicon do it at the expense of other features. It’s always a balancing act. That’s effectively the big rub between NVIDIA and AMD today with raytracing + tensor support vs pure raster+compute throughput. Apple just went through a major GPU architecture change [1]. They focused a ton on maximizing for AAA game usage and followed the NVIDIA route to bias towards where they think things are going. At least according to the simplified architecture diagrams for both Apple graphics and Adreno, Apple has more raytracing silicon than Adreno. It also supports stuff that doesn’t require silicon but does have effects on GPU design like mesh shading or their new dynamic caching that improves occupancy for high draw count games with large uber shaders. Compared to Adreno that focused more on raw triangle throughput instead, but doesn’t scale as well with complexity. It performs much better on mobile benchmarks that fit that usage pattern, but falls behind with desktop benchmarks that follow Apple’s priorities. [1] https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/tech-talks/111375 https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/tech-talks/111375
- jayd16 2y ago
  I think the tail is wagging the dog here. Those mobile workloads are tuned towards what currently works. If Apple or Qualcomm pull off desktop features in a mobile power envelope then the industry would happily adjust.
  - dagmx 2y ago
    I think that assumes that most games are targeting higher end graphics and are held back. The majority of played mobile games would be the same as they are today imho even if you could achieve 4090 performance in that power envelope.
- ksec 2y ago
  I always thought the road to Ray-Tracing is wrong on mobile. At least in its current form or iteration. But then Apple decided to go with it, I would have expected they have something new. But turns out not.