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> I'm merely pointing out that the U.S. does not have a leg to stand on when they'll turn around do the exact same thing. > I find all the hypocrisy and postur

by tivert 2y ago

> I'm merely pointing out that the U.S. does not have a leg to stand on when they'll turn around do the exact same thing. > I find all the hypocrisy and posturing very tiring. I'm merely pointing out that you're severely misunderstanding this. As I said before: there's no universal there, it's all contextual. The US is trying to take action to protect itself, end of story. It's like a soldier hiding from enemy fire in a foxhole and telling his buddies to do the same. If you wander onto the battlefield and tell him you find his "hypocrisy and posturing very tiring," because he shoots back at his enemy, he'd look at you like you're mad, and he'd be right because you don't get what's going on in a pretty fundamental way.

hypeatei 2y ago
> The US is trying to take action to protect itself, end of story. Yes, that take isn't particularly surprising. The hyper fixation and "we're done talking about this" vibe is very strange.
- tivert 2y ago
  > The hyper fixation and "we're done talking about this" vibe is very strange. "End of story" didn't mean what you seem to think it meant. But we're done talking about this because you seem to be too prone to misinterpretation and misunderstanding. It's a waste of time.
sididjddjd 2y ago
the issue is turning everything into a literal battlefield as opposed to market competition with transnational regulatory bodies to align rules. Recent generations have forgotten what the UN was for and seem to valorise violence and militarism in every aspect of life. The generation that fought to avoid that happening again are no longer with us, and it shows. I’m not sure picking a bad guy and defining a position as “in a fox hole” is anything close to objective discussion but like other comments, the path that’s being charted benefits from accepting its inevitability and there being no alternative
- libertine 2y ago
  > the issue is turning everything into a literal battlefield as opposed to market competition with transnational regulatory bodies to align rules. The problem with autocratic regimes is that they don't seem to care that much about rules, or some rights and duties that a valued by Western societies. You can claim that Western countries at times didn't follow rules either, they're far from perfect. But one thing is to haven't followed the rules on some occasions, the other thing is to do it consistently as a part of your strategy, because there are no consequences to it. Let's pick for example Russia: their regime loves to use the Iraq war and now even the Israel war to make parallels between what they are doing and want to achieve in Ukraine, and what the US did and what Israel is doing. Here we have a country trying to annex another country, and using Genocide as a tool to achieve this goal, and you have Brazil, India, China, and South Africa supporting this. Or China making it difficult for foreign companies to tap into the value of the Chinese internal market, and the amount of IP theft that happened for decades. That's not market competition, and regulators can't enforce anything when you have big players captured by a small elite not playing by the rules. What are you going to do about it?
  - redserk 2y ago
    I can’t disagree at all with what you've stated, but I’ll toss in a nuclear-take here: As a consumer, the IP theft has been fantastic. Prices for many things stayed high for no good reason and market competition hasn’t been doing what it ought to because our market is broken in a number of ways to favor incumbents. It’s been the only effective check on the market in quite a long time. Now is it at all ethical? Perhaps not. But it’s extremely difficult to have sympathy.
    - libertine 2y ago
      > As a consumer, the IP theft has been fantastic. (...) Now is it at all ethical? Perhaps not. But it’s extremely difficult to have sympathy. I think this is a great take, but prices aren't just a reflection of IP theft, but also of child labor, low wage labor, environmental damage, etc... so I will throw a question back at you: Do you think that we reached the point where Westerners aren't willing to pay the Civil price for Human Rights, and other Western values?
hcfman 2y ago
"The US is trying to take action to protect itself, end of story" Wow! That almost reads like he believes it. How quaint.
- ffgjgf1 2y ago
  Because it’s rather obvious, how else would you describe it?

by tivert 2y ago

hypeatei 2y ago

> The US is trying to take action to protect itself, end of story. Yes, that take isn't particularly surprising. The hyper fixation and "we're done talking about this" vibe is very strange.

tivert 2y ago
> The hyper fixation and "we're done talking about this" vibe is very strange. "End of story" didn't mean what you seem to think it meant. But we're done talking about this because you seem to be too prone to misinterpretation and misunderstanding. It's a waste of time.

sididjddjd 2y ago

the issue is turning everything into a literal battlefield as opposed to market competition with transnational regulatory bodies to align rules. Recent generations have forgotten what the UN was for and seem to valorise violence and militarism in every aspect of life. The generation that fought to avoid that happening again are no longer with us, and it shows. I’m not sure picking a bad guy and defining a position as “in a fox hole” is anything close to objective discussion but like other comments, the path that’s being charted benefits from accepting its inevitability and there being no alternative

libertine 2y ago
> the issue is turning everything into a literal battlefield as opposed to market competition with transnational regulatory bodies to align rules. The problem with autocratic regimes is that they don't seem to care that much about rules, or some rights and duties that a valued by Western societies. You can claim that Western countries at times didn't follow rules either, they're far from perfect. But one thing is to haven't followed the rules on some occasions, the other thing is to do it consistently as a part of your strategy, because there are no consequences to it. Let's pick for example Russia: their regime loves to use the Iraq war and now even the Israel war to make parallels between what they are doing and want to achieve in Ukraine, and what the US did and what Israel is doing. Here we have a country trying to annex another country, and using Genocide as a tool to achieve this goal, and you have Brazil, India, China, and South Africa supporting this. Or China making it difficult for foreign companies to tap into the value of the Chinese internal market, and the amount of IP theft that happened for decades. That's not market competition, and regulators can't enforce anything when you have big players captured by a small elite not playing by the rules. What are you going to do about it?
- redserk 2y ago
  I can’t disagree at all with what you've stated, but I’ll toss in a nuclear-take here: As a consumer, the IP theft has been fantastic. Prices for many things stayed high for no good reason and market competition hasn’t been doing what it ought to because our market is broken in a number of ways to favor incumbents. It’s been the only effective check on the market in quite a long time. Now is it at all ethical? Perhaps not. But it’s extremely difficult to have sympathy.
  - libertine 2y ago
    > As a consumer, the IP theft has been fantastic. (...) Now is it at all ethical? Perhaps not. But it’s extremely difficult to have sympathy. I think this is a great take, but prices aren't just a reflection of IP theft, but also of child labor, low wage labor, environmental damage, etc... so I will throw a question back at you: Do you think that we reached the point where Westerners aren't willing to pay the Civil price for Human Rights, and other Western values?

hcfman 2y ago

"The US is trying to take action to protect itself, end of story" Wow! That almost reads like he believes it. How quaint.

ffgjgf1 2y ago
Because it’s rather obvious, how else would you describe it?