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No, I never said any of that. I just find it funny the U.S. government postures like this when they are probably the worst offenders when it comes to violating

No, I never said any of that. I just find it funny the U.S. government postures like this when they are probably the worst offenders when it comes to violating privacy of people around the world and their own citizens, too.

wakawaka28 2y ago
Are there any countries out there with a better privacy record, and an equivalent of the Fourth Amendment where there is actual legal action that can be pursued in case of violations? I am well aware of the violations of the US, but I am of the opinion that all countries spy when they are able to and can get away with it, and I'd rather have the US spying on me than anyone else.
- hypeatei 2y ago
  > there is actual legal action that can be pursued in case of violations I suggest you research the Patriot Act and FISA courts and tell me that our government is operating in a constitutional matter. Secret courts used to surveil foreign and American citizens. That isn't to mention the unfettered access to data they have through backdoors and the five eyes alliance.
  - threeseed 2y ago
    Patriot Act and FISA courts have been ruled by the Supreme Court to be constitutional. And the independent judiciary is an integral part of them i.e. they decide if cases can be tried in them.
    - hypeatei 2y ago
      Given how powerful the three letter agencies are (especially the CIA), I'm not surprised the judiciary branch of the U.S. government agrees its constitutional. The ACLU and many legal professionals think FISA is unconstitutional. There are roadblocks when trying to challenge FISA because of the secrecy, see: https://www.npr.org/2013/02/26/172998760/supreme-court-makes-it-harder-to-challenge-foreign-intelligence-surveillance-act https://www.npr.org/2013/02/26/172998760/supreme-court-makes...
      - cowboylowrez 2y ago
        yeah but I think folks are thinking relatively, for instance, can we in both countries chat about "democratic rule" with the same comfy web tools?
    - ffgjgf1 2y ago
      Which isn’t necessarily that great when that judicial system is throughly and entirely openly corrupt even at the very top
  - wakawaka28 2y ago
    I didn't say that the government followed the law or even did the right thing always. But in many countries you have absolutely no recourse. In the US you can talk about it, file lawsuits, etc.
wildzzz 2y ago
And other countries are free to ban the sale of American network devices that they suspect are spying for the US government.
- hypeatei 2y ago
  Maybe countries that are completely outside the US sphere of influence (e.g. China or Russia) but anything that legitimately threatens the intelligence apparatus will not be allowed. See the ousting of Australias prime minister (first ever in history) by their governor general influenced by the CIA: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alleged_CIA_involvement_in_the_Whitlam_dismissal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alleged_CIA_involvement_in_t...
- rightbyte 2y ago
  > And other countries are free to ban the sale of American network devices No they are not. You need to mandate domestic network devices or introduce some silly standard to fly under the radar. The risk is too high Washington will destabilize your country and you might end up in a bloody mess.

wakawaka28 2y ago

Are there any countries out there with a better privacy record, and an equivalent of the Fourth Amendment where there is actual legal action that can be pursued in case of violations? I am well aware of the violations of the US, but I am of the opinion that all countries spy when they are able to and can get away with it, and I'd rather have the US spying on me than anyone else.

hypeatei 2y ago
> there is actual legal action that can be pursued in case of violations I suggest you research the Patriot Act and FISA courts and tell me that our government is operating in a constitutional matter. Secret courts used to surveil foreign and American citizens. That isn't to mention the unfettered access to data they have through backdoors and the five eyes alliance.
- threeseed 2y ago
  Patriot Act and FISA courts have been ruled by the Supreme Court to be constitutional. And the independent judiciary is an integral part of them i.e. they decide if cases can be tried in them.
  - hypeatei 2y ago
    Given how powerful the three letter agencies are (especially the CIA), I'm not surprised the judiciary branch of the U.S. government agrees its constitutional. The ACLU and many legal professionals think FISA is unconstitutional. There are roadblocks when trying to challenge FISA because of the secrecy, see: https://www.npr.org/2013/02/26/172998760/supreme-court-makes-it-harder-to-challenge-foreign-intelligence-surveillance-act https://www.npr.org/2013/02/26/172998760/supreme-court-makes...
    - cowboylowrez 2y ago
      yeah but I think folks are thinking relatively, for instance, can we in both countries chat about "democratic rule" with the same comfy web tools?
  - ffgjgf1 2y ago
    Which isn’t necessarily that great when that judicial system is throughly and entirely openly corrupt even at the very top
- wakawaka28 2y ago
  I didn't say that the government followed the law or even did the right thing always. But in many countries you have absolutely no recourse. In the US you can talk about it, file lawsuits, etc.

wildzzz 2y ago

And other countries are free to ban the sale of American network devices that they suspect are spying for the US government.

hypeatei 2y ago
Maybe countries that are completely outside the US sphere of influence (e.g. China or Russia) but anything that legitimately threatens the intelligence apparatus will not be allowed. See the ousting of Australias prime minister (first ever in history) by their governor general influenced by the CIA: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alleged_CIA_involvement_in_the_Whitlam_dismissal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alleged_CIA_involvement_in_t...
rightbyte 2y ago
> And other countries are free to ban the sale of American network devices No they are not. You need to mandate domestic network devices or introduce some silly standard to fly under the radar. The risk is too high Washington will destabilize your country and you might end up in a bloody mess.