4 ms·

Pretty cool! It's kinda amusing that we've gone from TUI (VisiCalc/Lotus 1-2-3) to GUI (Excel), and back to TUI though.

5- 2y ago
cursor-addressing uis likely have a higher barrier to entry (both for developers and users), so they are not suffering from the regression to the mean that has made modern guis absolutely unusable. that, and there aren't any "ui/ux designers" specialising in cursor-addressing uis.
- galdosdi 2y ago
  What do you mean precisely by "character addressing UI"? I can infer approximately what you mean, but I had never heard that phrase before and could not Google it, so was wondering how precisely you define that as presumably slightly distinct from other more common terms for text mode applications.
  - 5- 2y ago
    thanks! i meant 'cursor-addressing', to avoid the ambiguous term 'tui', which usually (and per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Text-based_user_interface https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Text-based_user_interface) means cursor-addressing, but nominally also includes actual text-based user interfaces, as seen in e.g. the traditional unix utilities.
    - Shared404 2y ago
      I've always seen CLI used for unix style utilities and TUI used for cursor-addressing/ncurses style interfaces fwiw.
    - TickleSteve 2y ago
      You still didnt define what "cursor addressing" means. Its not a common term to use for these UIs and doesnt seem to get to the crux of what separates a typical GUI from these. For me, the crucial difference is that they're usable over ssh and tmux, not the type of cursor they have (if any).
- ncruces 2y ago
  I take it you haven't heard about: https://charm.sh/ https://charm.sh/
  - cycomanic 2y ago
    Interesting that Website reliably crashes mobile Firefox (nightly and release) and brave for me.
    - thegeekpirate 2y ago
      Works fine on my Pixel 7a using the release version of Firefox (I won't dare touch Brave), fwiw.
- akira2501 2y ago
  > and there aren't any "ui/ux designers" specialising in cursor-addressing uis. Depends where you look. https://davideellis.wordpress.com/2012/08/31/ibm-tivoli-monitoring-enhanced-3270-user-interface-overview/ https://davideellis.wordpress.com/2012/08/31/ibm-tivoli-moni...
kazinator 2y ago
Not really. There is an ancient curses-based spreadsheet program called "sc" (spreadsheet calculator). It sounds like "scim" is to "sc" vaguely like "vim" is to "vi": new program with more features cloning/imitating ancient program. "vi" was written by Bill Joy in 1979. "sc" by James Gosling in 1981. sc-im claims to be based on "sc". It's a direct lineage unrelated to GUI spreadsheets.
- dotancohen 2y ago
  Gosling wrote sc? I had no idea. I was an scim user before moving to visidata like another poster mentioned, so I kinda-sorta feel like an sc user. For those who don't know, James Gosling invented a popular VM-based "write once, test everywhere" programming language named after a tree. Then named after a coffee.
  - kazinator 2y ago
    Gosling also invented a structural macro processor for C, in 1989. Ace: a syntax-driven C preprocessor: https://swtch.com/gosling89ace.pdf https://swtch.com/gosling89ace.pdf In 1981, Gosling Emacs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gosling_Emacs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gosling_Emacs Richard Stallman used Gosling Emacs as the starting code for GNU Emacs.
  - FearNotDaniel 2y ago
    For those who don't know, and don't want to have to go off and search to understand the cryptic comment... He's talking about Java. Which in an earlier iteration was known as Oak.
mytec 2y ago
It reminded me of The Twin spreadsheet from the late 1980s. I worked at a plastics plant that used it in their color lab until at least 2013 when I left. There were thousands of color recipes and no one wanted to try and convert all of that to a newer spreadsheet. https://forum.winworldpc.com/discussion/7590/software-spotlight-the-twin https://forum.winworldpc.com/discussion/7590/software-spotli...
smabie 2y ago
No one has gone back for real spreadsheet work tho
fbn79 2y ago
The great drawback of TUI app is that are quite unusable from touch devices, or generally devices without a keyboard). If you find a way to make them usable on mobile I think they can get a great comeback
- IsTom 2y ago
  > If you find a way to make them usable on mobile And if that requires any tradeoffs like it did for GUIs (no hover, no small elements) it'll end up getting dumbed down for mobile like GUIs did.
- bregma 2y ago
  If you can find a way to make touch-friendly interfaces useful on desktop devices with a large screen and a keyboard maybe then they'll take off. Better yet, make all user interfaces the same as a toaster. Everyone can use a toaster. Bread goes in, push the lever. One universal way of thinking for everyone and everything. No domination by the tyranny of choice.
  - playingalong 2y ago
    You might have not seen different kind of tosters.

5- 2y ago

cursor-addressing uis likely have a higher barrier to entry (both for developers and users), so they are not suffering from the regression to the mean that has made modern guis absolutely unusable. that, and there aren't any "ui/ux designers" specialising in cursor-addressing uis.

galdosdi 2y ago
What do you mean precisely by "character addressing UI"? I can infer approximately what you mean, but I had never heard that phrase before and could not Google it, so was wondering how precisely you define that as presumably slightly distinct from other more common terms for text mode applications.
- 5- 2y ago
  thanks! i meant 'cursor-addressing', to avoid the ambiguous term 'tui', which usually (and per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Text-based_user_interface https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Text-based_user_interface) means cursor-addressing, but nominally also includes actual text-based user interfaces, as seen in e.g. the traditional unix utilities.
  - Shared404 2y ago
    I've always seen CLI used for unix style utilities and TUI used for cursor-addressing/ncurses style interfaces fwiw.
  - TickleSteve 2y ago
    You still didnt define what "cursor addressing" means. Its not a common term to use for these UIs and doesnt seem to get to the crux of what separates a typical GUI from these. For me, the crucial difference is that they're usable over ssh and tmux, not the type of cursor they have (if any).
ncruces 2y ago
I take it you haven't heard about: https://charm.sh/ https://charm.sh/
- cycomanic 2y ago
  Interesting that Website reliably crashes mobile Firefox (nightly and release) and brave for me.
  - thegeekpirate 2y ago
    Works fine on my Pixel 7a using the release version of Firefox (I won't dare touch Brave), fwiw.
akira2501 2y ago
> and there aren't any "ui/ux designers" specialising in cursor-addressing uis. Depends where you look. https://davideellis.wordpress.com/2012/08/31/ibm-tivoli-monitoring-enhanced-3270-user-interface-overview/ https://davideellis.wordpress.com/2012/08/31/ibm-tivoli-moni...

kazinator 2y ago

Not really. There is an ancient curses-based spreadsheet program called "sc" (spreadsheet calculator). It sounds like "scim" is to "sc" vaguely like "vim" is to "vi": new program with more features cloning/imitating ancient program. "vi" was written by Bill Joy in 1979. "sc" by James Gosling in 1981. sc-im claims to be based on "sc". It's a direct lineage unrelated to GUI spreadsheets.

dotancohen 2y ago
Gosling wrote sc? I had no idea. I was an scim user before moving to visidata like another poster mentioned, so I kinda-sorta feel like an sc user. For those who don't know, James Gosling invented a popular VM-based "write once, test everywhere" programming language named after a tree. Then named after a coffee.
- kazinator 2y ago
  Gosling also invented a structural macro processor for C, in 1989. Ace: a syntax-driven C preprocessor: https://swtch.com/gosling89ace.pdf https://swtch.com/gosling89ace.pdf In 1981, Gosling Emacs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gosling_Emacs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gosling_Emacs Richard Stallman used Gosling Emacs as the starting code for GNU Emacs.
- FearNotDaniel 2y ago
  For those who don't know, and don't want to have to go off and search to understand the cryptic comment... He's talking about Java. Which in an earlier iteration was known as Oak.

mytec 2y ago

It reminded me of The Twin spreadsheet from the late 1980s. I worked at a plastics plant that used it in their color lab until at least 2013 when I left. There were thousands of color recipes and no one wanted to try and convert all of that to a newer spreadsheet. https://forum.winworldpc.com/discussion/7590/software-spotlight-the-twin https://forum.winworldpc.com/discussion/7590/software-spotli...

smabie 2y ago

No one has gone back for real spreadsheet work tho

fbn79 2y ago

The great drawback of TUI app is that are quite unusable from touch devices, or generally devices without a keyboard). If you find a way to make them usable on mobile I think they can get a great comeback

IsTom 2y ago
> If you find a way to make them usable on mobile And if that requires any tradeoffs like it did for GUIs (no hover, no small elements) it'll end up getting dumbed down for mobile like GUIs did.
bregma 2y ago
If you can find a way to make touch-friendly interfaces useful on desktop devices with a large screen and a keyboard maybe then they'll take off. Better yet, make all user interfaces the same as a toaster. Everyone can use a toaster. Bread goes in, push the lever. One universal way of thinking for everyone and everything. No domination by the tyranny of choice.
- playingalong 2y ago
  You might have not seen different kind of tosters.