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The emphasis here is not on Putin but on the negotiations. If you refuse to negotiate, you will get killed. Even if Putin is replaced tomorrow with Mutin or Agu

The emphasis here is not on Putin but on the negotiations. If you refuse to negotiate, you will get killed. Even if Putin is replaced tomorrow with Mutin or Agutin, it's not like you can skip the negotiations stage. It was stupid for Ukraine to skip negotiations in 2014, it was stupid for them doing three coup attempts in 15 years, but it was also stupid for Putin to do what he did in 2022. That's past now, though, that is immutable, and the future can only be fixed by negotiations.

racional 2y ago
Mutin/Agutin Whoever the Russian deep state manages to run up the flagpole after Putin croaks -- we know you'll still be here. Echoing his latest catchphrases, defending his every move.
- thriftwy 2y ago
  I'm not a big fan of Putin, if you asked me about the downsides I won't be able to shut up for hours. However, I'm also no big fun of the state of Ukraine, but I'm quite fond of Crimea. Many Ukrainian cities as well, but Crimea in particular. So, as Lenin has said, "one can't live in a society and be free of that society".
  - racional 2y ago
    I'm quite fond of Crimea. Very fond, I'm sure. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1939_German_ultimatum_to_Lithuania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1939_German_ultimatum_to_Lithu... Many Ukrainian cities as well And the German soldiers were always so fond of Paris.
    - thriftwy 2y ago
      In Russia, most people put some part of the blame on the WWI winning coalition for humiliating Germany too much and then failing to keep its power in check, leading to a large, angry Germany in 1939. The lands the USSR has occupied in 1939 are mostly Russian Empire lands, so USSR never really agreed to part with those. Neither was Germany committed to parting with its German Empire lands. You may argue they have both "signed something", right. If you praise Germany for changing its strategy after 1945 to avert future wars, at the same time you should blame the US world order for failing to part with strategy which got them WWII after WWI, when dealing with post-Soviet Russia. As they should have noticed by that moment, you do not get into stable, reciprocital relationship with someone you've either raped into signing a piece of paper or got them to sign for a $2.99 can of food or starve. I believe Soviet troops in 1945 Berlin did not have such expectations, but to my surprise, US and its thralls still do.

racional 2y ago

Mutin/Agutin Whoever the Russian deep state manages to run up the flagpole after Putin croaks -- we know you'll still be here. Echoing his latest catchphrases, defending his every move.

thriftwy 2y ago
I'm not a big fan of Putin, if you asked me about the downsides I won't be able to shut up for hours. However, I'm also no big fun of the state of Ukraine, but I'm quite fond of Crimea. Many Ukrainian cities as well, but Crimea in particular. So, as Lenin has said, "one can't live in a society and be free of that society".
- racional 2y ago
  I'm quite fond of Crimea. Very fond, I'm sure. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1939_German_ultimatum_to_Lithuania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1939_German_ultimatum_to_Lithu... Many Ukrainian cities as well And the German soldiers were always so fond of Paris.
  - thriftwy 2y ago
    In Russia, most people put some part of the blame on the WWI winning coalition for humiliating Germany too much and then failing to keep its power in check, leading to a large, angry Germany in 1939. The lands the USSR has occupied in 1939 are mostly Russian Empire lands, so USSR never really agreed to part with those. Neither was Germany committed to parting with its German Empire lands. You may argue they have both "signed something", right. If you praise Germany for changing its strategy after 1945 to avert future wars, at the same time you should blame the US world order for failing to part with strategy which got them WWII after WWI, when dealing with post-Soviet Russia. As they should have noticed by that moment, you do not get into stable, reciprocital relationship with someone you've either raped into signing a piece of paper or got them to sign for a $2.99 can of food or starve. I believe Soviet troops in 1945 Berlin did not have such expectations, but to my surprise, US and its thralls still do.