4 ms·

In the case of Brazil it's mainly due to our absurd import taxes.

Xunjin 2y ago
Do you have numbers to support it? If you mean import of hardware that do makes sense, but what about hardware that's already here? (I'm also Brazilian) Looking at AWS site it explains that PIS/COFINS and ISS are charged, excerpt below: "AWS SBL can issue an NFS-e to a Bra zilian customer only after receiving a valid Tax Registration Number ("TRN") (i.e., CPF/CNPJ). The relevant taxes applicable to AWS cloud services offered locally are the following: PIS and COFINS (9.25%, combined rate) and ISS (2.9%, charged by São Paulo municipality)." https://aws.amazon.com/tax-help/Brazil/ https://aws.amazon.com/tax-help/Brazil/ This is below 15% which many countries do tax for cloud services. I'm not saying that Brazilian taxes are really high, they are for hardware imports, but the taxes into the service itself does seem "fair".
- definitelyauser 2y ago
  > but what about hardware that's already here? (I'm also Brazilian) It's ridiculously expensive. Very little hardware is produced domestically, and the little that is, you don't want to be running your switches on what is in essence a no-name "intelbras" brand.
- tptacek 2y ago
  If you can help us drastically reduce our Brazilian hosting costs, we're all ears. :)
  - Xunjin 2y ago
    I won't deny that I'd love the challenge. However, there are some caveats: 1. AINAL, so I might say legal matters wrong for not understanding completely how the tax law works in Brazil, (Tho I do like to search about it), but I might find someone who could help you guys with it. 2. Currently, there is a law already approved (now being regulated with complementary acts) about how taxes will change in Brazil to the VAT model, this could increase/decrease taxes for a service like yours. Besides these 2 points, we could talk via email (xunjin.coder@gmail.com) to might find a way like AWS did, creating a Brazilian subsidiary, to be able to generate NF-e in accordance for each valid Brazilian Tax Registration Number (CPF/CNPJ) and issue the invoices in BRL. This page https://aws.amazon.com/legal/aws-sbl/ https://aws.amazon.com/legal/aws-sbl/ could have more info to elucidate how AWS does.
    - tptacek 2y ago
      Seriously, thank you for offering. I'll let Scott and Dave know, and one of us will get back to you. (If anything comes of this, and you're OK with it, we'll write it up so people on HN can read about it; I always feel a little squicky "moving" discussions from HN to private channels).
      - Xunjin 2y ago
        Be my guest in writing about it, I hope I can help you with it. PS: Life is sometimes a funny coincidence. My brother, who is a State attorney where I live, called me to share private matters 20 minutes ago, and already asked him for some help/directions about it. This weekend, I will speak to him in our spare time about it.

Do you have numbers to support it? If you mean import of hardware that do makes sense, but what about hardware that's already here? (I'm also Brazilian) Looking at AWS site it explains that PIS/COFINS and ISS are charged, excerpt below: "AWS SBL can issue an NFS-e to a Bra zilian customer only after receiving a valid Tax Registration Number ("TRN") (i.e., CPF/CNPJ). The relevant taxes applicable to AWS cloud services offered locally are the following: PIS and COFINS (9.25%, combined rate) and ISS (2.9%, charged by São Paulo municipality)." https://aws.amazon.com/tax-help/Brazil/ https://aws.amazon.com/tax-help/Brazil/ This is below 15% which many countries do tax for cloud services. I'm not saying that Brazilian taxes are really high, they are for hardware imports, but the taxes into the service itself does seem "fair".

definitelyauser 2y ago
> but what about hardware that's already here? (I'm also Brazilian) It's ridiculously expensive. Very little hardware is produced domestically, and the little that is, you don't want to be running your switches on what is in essence a no-name "intelbras" brand.
tptacek 2y ago
If you can help us drastically reduce our Brazilian hosting costs, we're all ears. :)
- Xunjin 2y ago
  I won't deny that I'd love the challenge. However, there are some caveats: 1. AINAL, so I might say legal matters wrong for not understanding completely how the tax law works in Brazil, (Tho I do like to search about it), but I might find someone who could help you guys with it. 2. Currently, there is a law already approved (now being regulated with complementary acts) about how taxes will change in Brazil to the VAT model, this could increase/decrease taxes for a service like yours. Besides these 2 points, we could talk via email (xunjin.coder@gmail.com) to might find a way like AWS did, creating a Brazilian subsidiary, to be able to generate NF-e in accordance for each valid Brazilian Tax Registration Number (CPF/CNPJ) and issue the invoices in BRL. This page https://aws.amazon.com/legal/aws-sbl/ https://aws.amazon.com/legal/aws-sbl/ could have more info to elucidate how AWS does.
  - tptacek 2y ago
    Seriously, thank you for offering. I'll let Scott and Dave know, and one of us will get back to you. (If anything comes of this, and you're OK with it, we'll write it up so people on HN can read about it; I always feel a little squicky "moving" discussions from HN to private channels).
    - Xunjin 2y ago
      Be my guest in writing about it, I hope I can help you with it. PS: Life is sometimes a funny coincidence. My brother, who is a State attorney where I live, called me to share private matters 20 minutes ago, and already asked him for some help/directions about it. This weekend, I will speak to him in our spare time about it.