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Reading a lot of the comments it seems that most people here are keen to have otherwise quiet cars fitted with fake sounds. While I appreciate there's a safety

Reading a lot of the comments it seems that most people here are keen to have otherwise quiet cars fitted with fake sounds. While I appreciate there's a safety aspect to making some sort of sound for pedestrians, I am actually looking forward to a future that makes cities and heavy traffic areas both quieter and cleaner. If you live in such areas, this would be a great quality of life improvement and dare I say, may improve property values in such places. I'd hate to think that 20 years from now I'll still be subject to morons deciding to delight the neighbourhood at 2am with their overblown engine sounds.

fnordpiglet 2y ago
Yeah Skeuomorphic EVs is a bad idea.
- DonHopkins 2y ago
  I kinda like the Skeuomorphic Brooke 25/30-HP Swan Car, which has Eerie Glowing Skeuomorphic Swan Eyes, can Rudely Spray Skeuomorphic Steam from its Skeuomorphic Swan Beak to clear a passage in the streets, can Obnoxiously Skeuomorphically Honk with an exhaust-driven, eight-tone Gabriel horn that can be operated by means of a keyboard at the back of the car, and can Disgustingly Dump Skeuomorphic Bird Shit onto the road through a valve at the back of the car. It even has a baby daughter, Cygnet The Baby Swan Car! I bet Elon Musk and every CyberTruck owner would love to drive a CyberSwan. https://www.louwmanmuseum.nl/en/car/brooke-25-30-hp-swan-car/ https://www.louwmanmuseum.nl/en/car/brooke-25-30-hp-swan-car... Brooke 25/30-HP Swan Car This Brooke Swan Car is truly extraordinary. It was the creation of the eccentric and wealthy Scotsman Robert Nicholl ‘Scotty’ Matthewson, who lived in early 20th century Calcutta, the capital of what was then British India Matthewson wanted to shock the local elite with his car, and he certainly succeeded in doing so. The bodywork represents a swan gliding through water. The rear is decorated with a lotus flower design finished in gold leaf, an ancient symbol for divine wisdom. Apart from the normal lights, there are electric bulbs in the swan’s eyes that glow eerily in the dark. The car has an exhaust-driven, eight-tone Gabriel horn that can be operated by means of a keyboard at the back of the car. A ship’s telegraph was used to issue commands to the driver. Brushes were fitted to sweep off the elephant dung collected by the tyres. The swan’s beak is linked to the engine’s cooling system and opens wide to allow the driver to spray steam to clear a passage in the streets. Whitewash could be dumped onto the road through a valve at the back of the car to make the swan appear even more lifelike. The car caused panic and chaos in the streets on its first outing and the police had to intervene. Matthewson sold the car to the Maharaja of Nabha, whose family owned it for over seventy years. The car was discovered years later in its original state, albeit in poor condition. The sumptuous Indian silk upholstery had been eaten away by rats. In 1991 it came into the ownership of the Louwman Museum and was fully restored. New upholstery was commissioned from an Indian weaving mill following the discovery of remnants of the original material under the seats. All the gadgets were made to working order again. In 1993 the Swan won the Montagu Prize at the prestigious Pebble Beach Concours d’Élégance in California. https://www.louwmanmuseum.nl/en/masterpieces-of-mobility/swan-car/ https://www.louwmanmuseum.nl/en/masterpieces-of-mobility/swa... Designed to shock The Brooke ‘Swan Car’ is truly extraordinary. It was the creation of the eccentric and wealthy Scotsman Robert Nicholl ‘Scotty’ Matthewson, who lived in early 20th century Calcutta, the capital of what was then British India. Matthewson wanted to shock the local elite with his car, and he certainly succeeded in doing so. Quite a sight! The car’s first outing in the streets of Calcutta lead to newspaper headlines: “Women screaming” and “animals in the streets scattered in all directions”. At the time traffic in Calcutta was already very busy and chaotic. The authorities’ response was to be expected: they banned the car from public roads. A work of art on wheels The body represented a swan, probably inspired by Swan Park in Calcutta where Matthewson lived. The accessories are just as quirky as the body of this work of art on wheels. In particular the system that allowed hot water to be sprayed from the swan’s beak and the brushes used to keep the tyres clean. The Maharaja of Nabha Matthewson decided to sell the car. A buyer was found in the person of the Maharaja of Nabha. After a conflict with the neighbouring principality, the Maharaja was forced to abdicate. His son, at the time 9 years old, succeeded him. The Baby Swan was built specially for him and beautifully complements the Swan Car. Meet the Swan Car The cars didn’t see much use and in the 1980s part of the Maharaja of Nabha’s car collection was sold, including the famous Swan Cars. Both cars were acquired by the Louwman Museum and subjected to a thorough restoration. https://www.louwmanmuseum.nl/en/car/cygnet-the-baby-swan-car/ https://www.louwmanmuseum.nl/en/car/cygnet-the-baby-swan-car... Cygnet The Baby Swan Car To accompany the large ‘Swan Car’ The Maharaja of Nabha had this smaller version made for use on his estate in the 1920s. The body was hand-beaten from steel sheet and fitted with an electric motor. It was called the ‘Baby Swan’ or ‘Cygnet’. Note the cygnets at the front. This is probably the oldest Indian-made automobile. Both cars are now reunited in the museum, like ‘mother and daughter’.
otteromkram 2y ago
Yes! I've already written NHTSA and US DOT about getting these synthetic noises banned. The more people who do the same, the more likely it'll get noticed. Now, we just have to figure out how to include motorcycles...
- fragmede 2y ago
  you know they're the ones that required them, right?
- sandworm101 2y ago
  >> getting these synthetic noises banned. Not possible. Db limits are one thing, but a content-based rule would be akin to banning certain types of music.
  - dagss 2y ago
    That sounds a bit theoretical in this context, I am sure auto makers would love to save the costs of external speakers, so the incentive is there to drop them if the sounds were not mandated.
IAmGraydon 2y ago
Unless I'm missing something, these sounds only occur inside the car. Can you explain how that affects you?
- constantcrying 2y ago
  EVs at low speeds need to produce external sounds to warn pedestrians.
  - lomase 2y ago
    Warn pedestrians about what?
    - tekknik 2y ago
      That they’re near. They’re so quiet unless you hear them shifting gravel on the road you won’t hear them. It’s dangerous to walk around anywhere vehicles park if an EV is present.
      - USiBqidmOOkAqRb 2y ago
        I know that HN is not one person, but this is getting out of hand. Some commenters are so upset about EV sounds they write petitions to have them banned, others swear that pedestrians fall dead from their sheer quietness. Maybe the EVs adapt to local regulations, because from my experience, depending on the model, they sound like a sad harmonica, hurdy-gurdy, or a model fighter jet, all of which are quite entertaining but fulfill the function.
        pests 2y ago
        I think the complaints were about EVs with fake sounds, added because they are so quiet. So both things are happening - some EVs are too quiet, others are too loud with the fake sounds.
- techwiz137 2y ago
HPsquared 2y ago
I wonder if they could go the other way and use loudspeakers for external active noise cancellation.
- pancsta 2y ago
  wtf is external noice cancellation
  - eclecticfrank 2y ago
    I believe they refer to something similar to this: https://youtu.be/y2RAsubSDAk?si=anuRAPCCI9Z0NQMJ&t=144 https://youtu.be/y2RAsubSDAk?si=anuRAPCCI9Z0NQMJ&t=144 Sorry, for the obnoxious video. I couldn't find another quick example.
- doubled112 2y ago
  https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/what-is-active-noise-cancellation-in-cars https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/what-is-active-... They already do have active noise cancelling, but I believe it is to benefit the passengers.
deadbunny 2y ago
Having lived in apartments on many busy roads in my life the main source of noise from cars is tyre noise, not engine noise.
- bmcahren 2y ago
  Try living downtown in South Florida.
  - HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
    The first mistake was living in Florida
    - tekknik 2y ago
      You’re right, freedom is overrated. Dictatorship in one of the blue states is a better choice.
      - seized 2y ago
        That's an insane take given DeSantis.
      - HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
        You literally live under desantis, the most brazenly autocratic governor in the US. GTFO.
- lomase 2y ago
  My experience is complatly different.
basil-rash 2y ago
By far the worst offenders when it comes to neighborhood car sound are EV’s. They have decided across the board to blast the most bone chilling drone imaginable every time they are backing up a driveway or driving at low speed – you know, the kind of thing that happens in neighborhoods all the time. The tone itself is the worst part. It’s as if it was specifically engineered by top audio scientists to be as repulsive as possible (that’s probably exactly what happened), then they turned the volume dial up to 11 so it’s still grating even in your house several doors down. I believe Tesla led the charge here, but now they’re all equally guilty of disturbing the peace and wanton noise pollution. Just play a nice v8 sound at a reasonable volume for gosh sake!
- hollerith 2y ago
  I like the hissing sound that some delivery trucks started making about a decade ago. Experiments show that people can determine the direction of a hiss (a sound composed of many frequencies) better than a beep or a pure tone.
- qrohlf 2y ago
  There’s some regulation here to contend with that mandates these EV sounds have to include a 1khz-4khz tone which is probably what you’re noticing since it’s on the higher end of the usual urban audioscape. The Verge did an interesting piece on this recently – https://www.theverge.com/24182348/ev-sounds-low-speed-survey-non-tonal-white-noise https://www.theverge.com/24182348/ev-sounds-low-speed-survey...
- Jerrrrry 2y ago
  [dead]
tekknik 2y ago
People like the sound of engines. It’s interesting to me that you have issue with car exhaust notes but not police or other sirens. In urban environments you typically hear sirens more than vehicle noise, at least in my experiences in SF. Maybe don’t be concerned with things that don’t really matter. Likely real engine sounds aren’t going anywhere anytime soon.
- hollerith 2y ago
  Most jurisdictions have laws against modifying cars to make them louder, so your attempt to make GP believe that his adverse reaction to loud cars is unusual or is his problem fails. Maybe you should face that fact that your loud car is bad for the health of your neighbors.
  - tekknik 2y ago
    Sure, and that’s the avenue to take rather than the GP stating across the board that the sounds are bad. Loud sounds, regardless of the source, are harmful. So again, now do sirens, and music.
- USiBqidmOOkAqRb 2y ago
  Are you actually trying to equate sociopaths to emergency services?

fnordpiglet 2y ago

Yeah Skeuomorphic EVs is a bad idea.

DonHopkins 2y ago
I kinda like the Skeuomorphic Brooke 25/30-HP Swan Car, which has Eerie Glowing Skeuomorphic Swan Eyes, can Rudely Spray Skeuomorphic Steam from its Skeuomorphic Swan Beak to clear a passage in the streets, can Obnoxiously Skeuomorphically Honk with an exhaust-driven, eight-tone Gabriel horn that can be operated by means of a keyboard at the back of the car, and can Disgustingly Dump Skeuomorphic Bird Shit onto the road through a valve at the back of the car. It even has a baby daughter, Cygnet The Baby Swan Car! I bet Elon Musk and every CyberTruck owner would love to drive a CyberSwan. https://www.louwmanmuseum.nl/en/car/brooke-25-30-hp-swan-car/ https://www.louwmanmuseum.nl/en/car/brooke-25-30-hp-swan-car... Brooke 25/30-HP Swan Car This Brooke Swan Car is truly extraordinary. It was the creation of the eccentric and wealthy Scotsman Robert Nicholl ‘Scotty’ Matthewson, who lived in early 20th century Calcutta, the capital of what was then British India Matthewson wanted to shock the local elite with his car, and he certainly succeeded in doing so. The bodywork represents a swan gliding through water. The rear is decorated with a lotus flower design finished in gold leaf, an ancient symbol for divine wisdom. Apart from the normal lights, there are electric bulbs in the swan’s eyes that glow eerily in the dark. The car has an exhaust-driven, eight-tone Gabriel horn that can be operated by means of a keyboard at the back of the car. A ship’s telegraph was used to issue commands to the driver. Brushes were fitted to sweep off the elephant dung collected by the tyres. The swan’s beak is linked to the engine’s cooling system and opens wide to allow the driver to spray steam to clear a passage in the streets. Whitewash could be dumped onto the road through a valve at the back of the car to make the swan appear even more lifelike. The car caused panic and chaos in the streets on its first outing and the police had to intervene. Matthewson sold the car to the Maharaja of Nabha, whose family owned it for over seventy years. The car was discovered years later in its original state, albeit in poor condition. The sumptuous Indian silk upholstery had been eaten away by rats. In 1991 it came into the ownership of the Louwman Museum and was fully restored. New upholstery was commissioned from an Indian weaving mill following the discovery of remnants of the original material under the seats. All the gadgets were made to working order again. In 1993 the Swan won the Montagu Prize at the prestigious Pebble Beach Concours d’Élégance in California. https://www.louwmanmuseum.nl/en/masterpieces-of-mobility/swan-car/ https://www.louwmanmuseum.nl/en/masterpieces-of-mobility/swa... Designed to shock The Brooke ‘Swan Car’ is truly extraordinary. It was the creation of the eccentric and wealthy Scotsman Robert Nicholl ‘Scotty’ Matthewson, who lived in early 20th century Calcutta, the capital of what was then British India. Matthewson wanted to shock the local elite with his car, and he certainly succeeded in doing so. Quite a sight! The car’s first outing in the streets of Calcutta lead to newspaper headlines: “Women screaming” and “animals in the streets scattered in all directions”. At the time traffic in Calcutta was already very busy and chaotic. The authorities’ response was to be expected: they banned the car from public roads. A work of art on wheels The body represented a swan, probably inspired by Swan Park in Calcutta where Matthewson lived. The accessories are just as quirky as the body of this work of art on wheels. In particular the system that allowed hot water to be sprayed from the swan’s beak and the brushes used to keep the tyres clean. The Maharaja of Nabha Matthewson decided to sell the car. A buyer was found in the person of the Maharaja of Nabha. After a conflict with the neighbouring principality, the Maharaja was forced to abdicate. His son, at the time 9 years old, succeeded him. The Baby Swan was built specially for him and beautifully complements the Swan Car. Meet the Swan Car The cars didn’t see much use and in the 1980s part of the Maharaja of Nabha’s car collection was sold, including the famous Swan Cars. Both cars were acquired by the Louwman Museum and subjected to a thorough restoration. https://www.louwmanmuseum.nl/en/car/cygnet-the-baby-swan-car/ https://www.louwmanmuseum.nl/en/car/cygnet-the-baby-swan-car... Cygnet The Baby Swan Car To accompany the large ‘Swan Car’ The Maharaja of Nabha had this smaller version made for use on his estate in the 1920s. The body was hand-beaten from steel sheet and fitted with an electric motor. It was called the ‘Baby Swan’ or ‘Cygnet’. Note the cygnets at the front. This is probably the oldest Indian-made automobile. Both cars are now reunited in the museum, like ‘mother and daughter’.

otteromkram 2y ago

Yes! I've already written NHTSA and US DOT about getting these synthetic noises banned. The more people who do the same, the more likely it'll get noticed. Now, we just have to figure out how to include motorcycles...

fragmede 2y ago
you know they're the ones that required them, right?
sandworm101 2y ago
>> getting these synthetic noises banned. Not possible. Db limits are one thing, but a content-based rule would be akin to banning certain types of music.
- dagss 2y ago
  That sounds a bit theoretical in this context, I am sure auto makers would love to save the costs of external speakers, so the incentive is there to drop them if the sounds were not mandated.

IAmGraydon 2y ago

Unless I'm missing something, these sounds only occur inside the car. Can you explain how that affects you?

constantcrying 2y ago
EVs at low speeds need to produce external sounds to warn pedestrians.
- lomase 2y ago
  Warn pedestrians about what?
  - tekknik 2y ago
    That they’re near. They’re so quiet unless you hear them shifting gravel on the road you won’t hear them. It’s dangerous to walk around anywhere vehicles park if an EV is present.
    - USiBqidmOOkAqRb 2y ago
      I know that HN is not one person, but this is getting out of hand. Some commenters are so upset about EV sounds they write petitions to have them banned, others swear that pedestrians fall dead from their sheer quietness. Maybe the EVs adapt to local regulations, because from my experience, depending on the model, they sound like a sad harmonica, hurdy-gurdy, or a model fighter jet, all of which are quite entertaining but fulfill the function.
      - pests 2y ago
        I think the complaints were about EVs with fake sounds, added because they are so quiet. So both things are happening - some EVs are too quiet, others are too loud with the fake sounds.
techwiz137 2y ago

HPsquared 2y ago

I wonder if they could go the other way and use loudspeakers for external active noise cancellation.

pancsta 2y ago
wtf is external noice cancellation
- eclecticfrank 2y ago
  I believe they refer to something similar to this: https://youtu.be/y2RAsubSDAk?si=anuRAPCCI9Z0NQMJ&t=144 https://youtu.be/y2RAsubSDAk?si=anuRAPCCI9Z0NQMJ&t=144 Sorry, for the obnoxious video. I couldn't find another quick example.
doubled112 2y ago
https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/what-is-active-noise-cancellation-in-cars https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/what-is-active-... They already do have active noise cancelling, but I believe it is to benefit the passengers.

deadbunny 2y ago

Having lived in apartments on many busy roads in my life the main source of noise from cars is tyre noise, not engine noise.

bmcahren 2y ago
Try living downtown in South Florida.
- HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
  The first mistake was living in Florida
  - tekknik 2y ago
    You’re right, freedom is overrated. Dictatorship in one of the blue states is a better choice.
    - seized 2y ago
      That's an insane take given DeSantis.
    - HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
      You literally live under desantis, the most brazenly autocratic governor in the US. GTFO.
lomase 2y ago
My experience is complatly different.

basil-rash 2y ago

By far the worst offenders when it comes to neighborhood car sound are EV’s. They have decided across the board to blast the most bone chilling drone imaginable every time they are backing up a driveway or driving at low speed – you know, the kind of thing that happens in neighborhoods all the time. The tone itself is the worst part. It’s as if it was specifically engineered by top audio scientists to be as repulsive as possible (that’s probably exactly what happened), then they turned the volume dial up to 11 so it’s still grating even in your house several doors down. I believe Tesla led the charge here, but now they’re all equally guilty of disturbing the peace and wanton noise pollution. Just play a nice v8 sound at a reasonable volume for gosh sake!

hollerith 2y ago
I like the hissing sound that some delivery trucks started making about a decade ago. Experiments show that people can determine the direction of a hiss (a sound composed of many frequencies) better than a beep or a pure tone.
qrohlf 2y ago
There’s some regulation here to contend with that mandates these EV sounds have to include a 1khz-4khz tone which is probably what you’re noticing since it’s on the higher end of the usual urban audioscape. The Verge did an interesting piece on this recently – https://www.theverge.com/24182348/ev-sounds-low-speed-survey-non-tonal-white-noise https://www.theverge.com/24182348/ev-sounds-low-speed-survey...
Jerrrrry 2y ago
[dead]

tekknik 2y ago

People like the sound of engines. It’s interesting to me that you have issue with car exhaust notes but not police or other sirens. In urban environments you typically hear sirens more than vehicle noise, at least in my experiences in SF. Maybe don’t be concerned with things that don’t really matter. Likely real engine sounds aren’t going anywhere anytime soon.

hollerith 2y ago
Most jurisdictions have laws against modifying cars to make them louder, so your attempt to make GP believe that his adverse reaction to loud cars is unusual or is his problem fails. Maybe you should face that fact that your loud car is bad for the health of your neighbors.
- tekknik 2y ago
  Sure, and that’s the avenue to take rather than the GP stating across the board that the sounds are bad. Loud sounds, regardless of the source, are harmful. So again, now do sirens, and music.
USiBqidmOOkAqRb 2y ago
Are you actually trying to equate sociopaths to emergency services?