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What a thoughtful response and I think that you’ve done a fantastic job at summarizing the crux of the issue Namely, that idealized human organizational struct

What a thoughtful response and I think that you’ve done a fantastic job at summarizing the crux of the issue Namely, that idealized human organizational structures require every citizen to have a level of dedication and persistent scrutiny, education, etc... that would allow for sustainment of a society. This is every Greek philosopher ever saying that education is the key to democracy Further, because this is the case, societies have tendencies (as we know from history) to lurch around following leaders who exploit this epistemological gap I fear that you’re correct in the sense that this is not a tractable problem Thank you!

AndyNemmity 2y ago
History shows it's been overcome. It just requires dedicated work, just as it has in labor movements in the United States, and in Spain during the Spanish Civil War, and the precursors to it. But you're absolutely right, it takes work to create the environment these ideas can take hold.
asdff 2y ago
You're welcome! I think while it's tempting to suggest education will solve it, its a biological/social impossibility as well. Many people go through the same curriculum but outcomes are very different for various reasons such as underlying cognitive abilities or the presence of other external factors in your life (e.g. having to work part time to support ones self, an abusive stressful household). This issue is probably why the founding fathers wanted to put guardrails over who is eligible to vote in effort to select for a population that is more likely to be able to interpret legal issues (white, presumably educated landowners presumably familiar with reading contracts and conducting business). This of course runs into the typical issues around disenfranchisement, since the representative government favors voters (and especially donors as these campaigns are unfortunately donor financed) and their issues over nonvoters. Kamala Harris was just in Brentwood over the weekend with the job of soliciting donations with the wealthy democratic donor base vs. being a VPOTUS, and I find that a little bit unsavory considering we don't even need to have campaigning to have an effective government at all, in theory. It only serves to give those with money an unequal influence on the political process relative to the rest of the electorate.

AndyNemmity 2y ago

History shows it's been overcome. It just requires dedicated work, just as it has in labor movements in the United States, and in Spain during the Spanish Civil War, and the precursors to it. But you're absolutely right, it takes work to create the environment these ideas can take hold.

asdff 2y ago

You're welcome! I think while it's tempting to suggest education will solve it, its a biological/social impossibility as well. Many people go through the same curriculum but outcomes are very different for various reasons such as underlying cognitive abilities or the presence of other external factors in your life (e.g. having to work part time to support ones self, an abusive stressful household). This issue is probably why the founding fathers wanted to put guardrails over who is eligible to vote in effort to select for a population that is more likely to be able to interpret legal issues (white, presumably educated landowners presumably familiar with reading contracts and conducting business). This of course runs into the typical issues around disenfranchisement, since the representative government favors voters (and especially donors as these campaigns are unfortunately donor financed) and their issues over nonvoters. Kamala Harris was just in Brentwood over the weekend with the job of soliciting donations with the wealthy democratic donor base vs. being a VPOTUS, and I find that a little bit unsavory considering we don't even need to have campaigning to have an effective government at all, in theory. It only serves to give those with money an unequal influence on the political process relative to the rest of the electorate.