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There are a few examples of oral cultures ensuring perfect transmission across a large expanse of time. One example is the several different recitation styles

by pradn 2y ago

There are a few examples of oral cultures ensuring perfect transmission across a large expanse of time. One example is the several different recitation styles used to memorize Sanskrit verses. These methods give memorizers multiple ways to remember a line, and also prevent errors like the inadvertent mixing of adjacent words (" euphonic combination"). The "checksumming schemes" are far more elaborate than you'd imagine. [1] The result is perfect transmission of text and its pronunciation, including pitch accent. Another example is a "multi-party verification" scheme in some Aboriginal Australian cultures. "... storytelling among contemporary Aboriginal people can involve the deliberate tracking of teaching responsibilities. For example, a man teaches the stories of his country to his children. His son has his knowledge of those stories judged by his sister’s children—for certain kin are explicitly tasked with ensuring that those stories are learned and recounted properly—and people take those responsibilities seriously. ... the 'owner-manager' relationship, requiring a story to be discussed explicitly across three generations of a patriline, constitutes a cross-generational mechanism which may be particularly successful at maximising precision in replication of a story across successive generations". [2] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedic_chant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedic_chant [2]: "Aboriginal Memories of Inundation of the Australian Coast Dating from More than 7000 Years Ago", Patrick D. Nunn, https://doi.org/10.1080/00049182.2015.1077539 https://doi.org/10.1080/00049182.2015.1077539

abc_lisper 2y ago
I think the harsh conditions in Australia, where there a thousand ways to die, put the onus on truth and preservation of it in the oral tradition. Unlike most other cultures where it's kind of ok to gradually deviate from the truth. It is worth paying attention to the aborigine stories.They have also made astronomical observations that are pretty accurate to the date. https://cosmosmagazine.com/space/australias-indigenous-people-made-accurate-astronomical-observations-millennia-before-western-scientists/ https://cosmosmagazine.com/space/australias-indigenous-peopl... Singing/Ballads are also popular way of preserving information fidelity. Homer's works were based on ballads. We don't put premium on memory now, but before the invention of printing press, memory techniques were widely studied and used.
- kelipso 2y ago
  It kind of feels like a local optima situation where they relied on memory so much that they didn't feel the need for writing. Either that or the fact that there was no writing for so long resulted in them specialising in memory techniques a lot.
  - yummypaint 2y ago
    We didn't evolve reading and writing. Literacy is just a recently developed hack. Memorization was the only way for the vast majority of human history.
    - snowpid 2y ago
      Who is we?
griffzhowl 2y ago
I've also heard it about the Buddhist tradition, that at least three groups of monks would memorize parts of the canon, and they would preiodically come together to chant it. If one group differed from the other two, they would know that's an error (at least to fairly high probability). This seems to have been an accurate method of transmission since independently written-down versions separated by centuries of oral tradition in Gandhara and Sri Lanka are very similar.
- roenxi 2y ago
  There are worse schemes, but that is barely comparable to Vedic chanting. 3-pick-2 as a method is quite good but also quite vulnerable to a bunch of transmission errors beyond simple memory issues. Over long periods of time there is a higher risk of group think or status plays leading to wild changes. Of course the vedas aren't immune, but it is a lot more effort to get them wrong than just a few people thinking "we want to change the story". A group would have to be hugely motivated to successfully change the chant.

by pradn 2y ago

abc_lisper 2y ago

I think the harsh conditions in Australia, where there a thousand ways to die, put the onus on truth and preservation of it in the oral tradition. Unlike most other cultures where it's kind of ok to gradually deviate from the truth. It is worth paying attention to the aborigine stories.They have also made astronomical observations that are pretty accurate to the date. https://cosmosmagazine.com/space/australias-indigenous-people-made-accurate-astronomical-observations-millennia-before-western-scientists/ https://cosmosmagazine.com/space/australias-indigenous-peopl... Singing/Ballads are also popular way of preserving information fidelity. Homer's works were based on ballads. We don't put premium on memory now, but before the invention of printing press, memory techniques were widely studied and used.

kelipso 2y ago
It kind of feels like a local optima situation where they relied on memory so much that they didn't feel the need for writing. Either that or the fact that there was no writing for so long resulted in them specialising in memory techniques a lot.
- yummypaint 2y ago
  We didn't evolve reading and writing. Literacy is just a recently developed hack. Memorization was the only way for the vast majority of human history.
  - snowpid 2y ago
    Who is we?

griffzhowl 2y ago

I've also heard it about the Buddhist tradition, that at least three groups of monks would memorize parts of the canon, and they would preiodically come together to chant it. If one group differed from the other two, they would know that's an error (at least to fairly high probability). This seems to have been an accurate method of transmission since independently written-down versions separated by centuries of oral tradition in Gandhara and Sri Lanka are very similar.

roenxi 2y ago
There are worse schemes, but that is barely comparable to Vedic chanting. 3-pick-2 as a method is quite good but also quite vulnerable to a bunch of transmission errors beyond simple memory issues. Over long periods of time there is a higher risk of group think or status plays leading to wild changes. Of course the vedas aren't immune, but it is a lot more effort to get them wrong than just a few people thinking "we want to change the story". A group would have to be hugely motivated to successfully change the chant.