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This is one of the reasons I'm always singing the praises of Kanban over Scrum. Scrum encourages busy work on too many things. Kanban encourages ruthless focus

This is one of the reasons I'm always singing the praises of Kanban over Scrum. Scrum encourages busy work on too many things. Kanban encourages ruthless focus on a few things that need to be done next, and what is blocking it. Scrum encourages "agile cosplay" with folks taking on things they shouldn't be doing now to make the right (imaginary) story point total for the sprint (which of course gets gamed as points get estimated to fit). Kanban encourages teaming up to get the hard stuff out of the way now. I have led a team in a transition from an over-done scrum to minimal Kanban process and talked to many others who did the same, from small startups to AAA game companies, and they all loved it. I've never heard one dev say they thought it was more productive to have scrum. As far as I can see, Scrum makes middle managers, "scrum masters" and people who don't care how much work actually gets done happy. Kanban actually helps development go faster. If anyone's interested, Microsoft press has a great light book on. The WIP limits are a key part.

neilfrndes 2y ago
Is this the book you're referring to? https://www.microsoftpressstore.com/store/agile-project-management-with-kanban-9780735698956 https://www.microsoftpressstore.com/store/agile-project-mana...
- baal80spam 2y ago
  OP, please don't leave us hangin'.
- iainctduncan 2y ago
  Yup!
nijave 2y ago
I like to think of scrum as more a "build up to" than a start at type process. Start with kanban and add as you have time and see fit. Need to forecast when something will be done? Do sprint planning and assign some story points Want to track cadence over time? Set a sprint start/stop date so you can measure in time periods Feeling comfortable in your process and want to continue to look for improvements? Add retros Working on high collaboration work and need progress updates? Change frequency of stand-ups Later, you might be in a crunch to complete a big project and sprint planning is redundant since you already have a decent amount planned
- pseudalopex 2y ago
  Sprints are not needed to measure cycle time and forecast.
gedy 2y ago
> Kanban actually helps development go faster. I agree, but was interesting to see mgmt at a startup I was at fight against this in favor of their "scrum" - they liked sprints because they'd push devs to commit to more work, and then scold people when they didn't finish enough. They were convinced they were speeding things up.. I left shortly after but was first time I'd seen "agile" abused this way.
- iainctduncan 2y ago
  It happens all the time. And then that encourages the weasels on the dev team (every team has some!) to game the system that way, overpointing the tasks they know they can take and kick out quickly to look like rockstars. IMHO with Scrum it takes very few bad apples for the whole thing to fall down.
psunavy03 2y ago
Scrum is not "Agile cosplay." It's just a different way of limiting WIP. First off, go to the Scrum Guide and show me where it's required to use Story Points in Scrum . . . it's not. All Scrum says is to pick a goal to accomplish in 1-4 weeks, build a backlog of stuff you need to do to accomplish the goal, go do it, show it to the stakeholders, and retrospect. You limit WIP by focusing on one goal and only pulling in what's necessary to get there in 1-4 weeks. Kanban is a perfectly valid way of doing things as well, but half the Scrum-bashers out there are taking big whacks at a strawman, because 80 percent of the time, they're not actually attacking Scrum. They're attacking some ancillary practices someone tacked on like planning poker, story points, burndowns/burnups, etc. Or they're mad at some idiot manager or executive, often rightfully so, for misunderstanding what Scrum even is or misusing it to abuse people. Don't blame the tool when someone misuses the tool. Some of the worst words ever written in software were when Jeff Sutherland talked about "twice the work in half the time."
- bryanrasmussen 2y ago
  >Don't blame the tool when someone misuses the tool. Sure, but just like when finding the fault with everything indicates the fault is in you if almost everyone misuses a tool the fault is in the tool.
  - psunavy03 2y ago
    You can't win. Scrum is "purposely incomplete," so everyone complains that it's too theoretical and not prescriptive enough, so people extend it and expand on it and then get told "that's too heavyweight; we don't need a detailed framework."
    - pseudalopex 2y ago
      Who complained Scrum is not agile and Scrum should be more prescriptive?
    - mckn1ght 2y ago
      As I’ve read your replies, it sounds like you’re defending Agile, not Scrum. Scrum is more prescriptive. I’ve never worked in a Scrum shop or even heard of one that didn’t have all the features commonly associated with it: burndown charts, backlog refinement with some kind of pointing consensus, retros, and a scrum master that drives all of these. Could you provide some material that explains how to do Scrum in a different way?
supercanuck 2y ago
^this on so many levels.
SkyPuncher 2y ago
IMO, a company that does one well will do their other one well. I’ve personally found that the lack of barriers on Kanban allows teams to get sloppy with the work they accomplish. Having a cycle or cadence give an intentional space for the team to scrutinize their work.

neilfrndes 2y ago

Is this the book you're referring to? https://www.microsoftpressstore.com/store/agile-project-management-with-kanban-9780735698956 https://www.microsoftpressstore.com/store/agile-project-mana...

baal80spam 2y ago
OP, please don't leave us hangin'.
iainctduncan 2y ago
Yup!

nijave 2y ago

I like to think of scrum as more a "build up to" than a start at type process. Start with kanban and add as you have time and see fit. Need to forecast when something will be done? Do sprint planning and assign some story points Want to track cadence over time? Set a sprint start/stop date so you can measure in time periods Feeling comfortable in your process and want to continue to look for improvements? Add retros Working on high collaboration work and need progress updates? Change frequency of stand-ups Later, you might be in a crunch to complete a big project and sprint planning is redundant since you already have a decent amount planned

pseudalopex 2y ago
Sprints are not needed to measure cycle time and forecast.

gedy 2y ago

> Kanban actually helps development go faster. I agree, but was interesting to see mgmt at a startup I was at fight against this in favor of their "scrum" - they liked sprints because they'd push devs to commit to more work, and then scold people when they didn't finish enough. They were convinced they were speeding things up.. I left shortly after but was first time I'd seen "agile" abused this way.

iainctduncan 2y ago
It happens all the time. And then that encourages the weasels on the dev team (every team has some!) to game the system that way, overpointing the tasks they know they can take and kick out quickly to look like rockstars. IMHO with Scrum it takes very few bad apples for the whole thing to fall down.

psunavy03 2y ago

Scrum is not "Agile cosplay." It's just a different way of limiting WIP. First off, go to the Scrum Guide and show me where it's required to use Story Points in Scrum . . . it's not. All Scrum says is to pick a goal to accomplish in 1-4 weeks, build a backlog of stuff you need to do to accomplish the goal, go do it, show it to the stakeholders, and retrospect. You limit WIP by focusing on one goal and only pulling in what's necessary to get there in 1-4 weeks. Kanban is a perfectly valid way of doing things as well, but half the Scrum-bashers out there are taking big whacks at a strawman, because 80 percent of the time, they're not actually attacking Scrum. They're attacking some ancillary practices someone tacked on like planning poker, story points, burndowns/burnups, etc. Or they're mad at some idiot manager or executive, often rightfully so, for misunderstanding what Scrum even is or misusing it to abuse people. Don't blame the tool when someone misuses the tool. Some of the worst words ever written in software were when Jeff Sutherland talked about "twice the work in half the time."

bryanrasmussen 2y ago
>Don't blame the tool when someone misuses the tool. Sure, but just like when finding the fault with everything indicates the fault is in you if almost everyone misuses a tool the fault is in the tool.
- psunavy03 2y ago
  You can't win. Scrum is "purposely incomplete," so everyone complains that it's too theoretical and not prescriptive enough, so people extend it and expand on it and then get told "that's too heavyweight; we don't need a detailed framework."
  - pseudalopex 2y ago
    Who complained Scrum is not agile and Scrum should be more prescriptive?
  - mckn1ght 2y ago
    As I’ve read your replies, it sounds like you’re defending Agile, not Scrum. Scrum is more prescriptive. I’ve never worked in a Scrum shop or even heard of one that didn’t have all the features commonly associated with it: burndown charts, backlog refinement with some kind of pointing consensus, retros, and a scrum master that drives all of these. Could you provide some material that explains how to do Scrum in a different way?

supercanuck 2y ago

^this on so many levels.

SkyPuncher 2y ago

IMO, a company that does one well will do their other one well. I’ve personally found that the lack of barriers on Kanban allows teams to get sloppy with the work they accomplish. Having a cycle or cadence give an intentional space for the team to scrutinize their work.