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> Time-zone changes are already very easy to handle and are sufficient for dealing with this problem without having to use a leap second or leap minute ever. T

> Time-zone changes are already very easy to handle and are sufficient for dealing with this problem without having to use a leap second or leap minute ever. TZ changes are a display delta against UTC. The closest thing we get to universal time 'changing' are leap years and February 29, and we regularly get stories about people messing that up. If something as common as February 29 is fumbled, what are the odds of pulling a one-off event? And as someone who was a sysadmin when the US changed its TZ rules many moons ago, the sudden rule change was anything but straight-forward given the fairly static nature that they had been for the long history of software development that had occurred until that point: a lot of software is US-developed, and there was little/zero consideration to updating rules. (Though I think that event caused a lot of developers to be more understanding.)

afiori 2y ago
In 400 years we can define new 30 minutes shifted timezones and in 400 - 500 years governments can slowly change their official timezones (maybe at summer/winter time they shift 30 minutes instead of 60). It does not feel like a big issue.
School-Cotton 2y ago
The point is we don't need to change universal time. Thousands of years from now, when solar time drifts away from UTC enough for a particular country to care, that country can change its time zone. There doesn't need to be any global coordination and the process will be gradual enough that nobody will notice.
- layer8 2y ago
  The EU already fails to agree on dropping DST (and adjusting time zones in the process), because member states will be affected differently, and neighboring countries that should really be in different time zones benefit from being in the same zone. I doubt they could agree on shifting their time zones, because invariably some countries would get the short stick.
  - School-Cotton 2y ago
    I keep repeating this point but for some reason people keep ignoring it. Countries do not have to agree to change time zone. They can each change it whenever they want.
    - layer8 2y ago
      The point is they will not want to change their time zone to a different one from their neighbors if they are in the same zone, because that has economic downsides. And the neighboring country will not want to change along because winter mornings will be too dark or whatever. It’s exactly the issue that currently prevents dropping DST in the EU, although a majority would prefer not changing clocks twice a year.
      - Analemma_ 2y ago
        I think that getting all of Europe to change time zone offsets by 30 minutes once every 400 years is within our power.
        throw0101c 2y ago
        > I think that getting all of Europe to change time zone offsets by 30 minutes once every 400 years is within our power. It took about 400 years for all countries to finally go from Julian to Gregorian. :)

afiori 2y ago

In 400 years we can define new 30 minutes shifted timezones and in 400 - 500 years governments can slowly change their official timezones (maybe at summer/winter time they shift 30 minutes instead of 60). It does not feel like a big issue.

School-Cotton 2y ago

The point is we don't need to change universal time. Thousands of years from now, when solar time drifts away from UTC enough for a particular country to care, that country can change its time zone. There doesn't need to be any global coordination and the process will be gradual enough that nobody will notice.

layer8 2y ago
The EU already fails to agree on dropping DST (and adjusting time zones in the process), because member states will be affected differently, and neighboring countries that should really be in different time zones benefit from being in the same zone. I doubt they could agree on shifting their time zones, because invariably some countries would get the short stick.
- School-Cotton 2y ago
  I keep repeating this point but for some reason people keep ignoring it. Countries do not have to agree to change time zone. They can each change it whenever they want.
  - layer8 2y ago
    The point is they will not want to change their time zone to a different one from their neighbors if they are in the same zone, because that has economic downsides. And the neighboring country will not want to change along because winter mornings will be too dark or whatever. It’s exactly the issue that currently prevents dropping DST in the EU, although a majority would prefer not changing clocks twice a year.
    - Analemma_ 2y ago
      I think that getting all of Europe to change time zone offsets by 30 minutes once every 400 years is within our power.
      - throw0101c 2y ago
        > I think that getting all of Europe to change time zone offsets by 30 minutes once every 400 years is within our power. It took about 400 years for all countries to finally go from Julian to Gregorian. :)