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> unlimited travel on regional and local transport for €49 a month Is this economic? Can it pay for its own repairs?

mamonster 2y ago
IIRC the arguments for it being economic were that all the money you lose on accelerated depreciation would be made up by less people using cars thus removing the negative externalities of pollution.
jFriedensreich 2y ago
while db was (semi- ?) privatised the ticket you refer to is a project by the government with subsidies, it is not meant to be economic but to be part of positive transformation.
lnsru 2y ago
No. It replaced here a ticket worth at least 150€ for local commuter train. There are more and more articles in the press, that 49€ is way too low.
- josefx 2y ago
  Isn't the 49€ ticket restricted to slower regional trains than the 150€ alternative? I still pay a small fortune traveling between west and east germany to save a few hours of travel time.
  - NeoTar 2y ago
    It depends on where the parent commenter is living - in Berlin I was paying over 80 EUR a month for a travel card which only applied in the state of Berlin before the Deutschland ticket () - I could believe that a monthly pass for other cities (Frankfurt?) could reach 150 EUR. ( Not directly before, there was the 9 EUR ticket in summer '22, and then BVG offered their monthly ticket for 29 EUR for a while).
  - account42 2y ago
    Even for slower trains you could easily pay well above 49€ before. Even just a montly ticket for the city where I live cost over 60€ and that still required you to pay extra for regional trains to nearby towns. That doesn't mean that 49€ is too low as both prices are subsidized (explicitly for the 49€ ticket and indirectly via infrastructure grants before).
  - gpvos 2y ago
    I'm not sure exactly which former ticket they meant, but such an approx. 150€ ticket was probably not just restricted to regional transport just like the Deutschlandticket, but also only valid in a small part of the country. Prices would have varied somewhat by federal state or region. The card that gives free travel on all trains costs €380 per month (€4550/y).
RandomLensman 2y ago
It's public transport - does it even need to pay for itself?
- unpopularopp 2y ago
  You are asking this on a site where the majority would sell their soul for 1% more profit
  - robertlagrant 2y ago
    This service isn't making a profit if it isn't even making enough to do maintenance.
- robertlagrant 2y ago
  Charging for use below what it costs to maintain that use is probably a bad idea.
  - myworkinisgood 2y ago
    You can also pay the deficit from other taxes. That way, rich people can subsidize transport for poor people. Almost free public transportation helps people lead richer lives, so its also a productivity/quality of life issue.
  - RandomLensman 2y ago
    Why? Is the military breaking even, for example? Societies can decide how to spend their resources and it can be subsidies to things people want to have exist.
    - robertlagrant 2y ago
      The military isn't saying "pay $5 to crash a tank". They aren't creating pricing that causes a deficit.
      - 2y ago
myworkinisgood 2y ago
I think so, yes. Just going by how many people are using the service now and going to nearby towns to visit other people or roam around, the ticket should pay a significant part of itself in taxes soon enough.
usr1106 2y ago
Of course 49€ a month for unlimited local/regional travel is not economic. But it has nothing to do with DB. Local/regional traffic is ordered and financed by the states (Länder). The 49€ ticket is a political project. DB has long distance, local/regional, and freight business. How much local/regional traffic companies are harmed by the 49€ ticket I have no numbers handy. But I feel DB is impacted relatively little compared to many other operators.
- account42 2y ago
  The local companies are the ones where most people buy their 49€ ticket while I imagine DB gets almost no income from it. Doesn't really matter though as both DB and local operators receive subsidies anyway, including ones specifically introduced for the 49€ ticket.

IIRC the arguments for it being economic were that all the money you lose on accelerated depreciation would be made up by less people using cars thus removing the negative externalities of pollution.

jFriedensreich 2y ago

while db was (semi- ?) privatised the ticket you refer to is a project by the government with subsidies, it is not meant to be economic but to be part of positive transformation.

lnsru 2y ago

No. It replaced here a ticket worth at least 150€ for local commuter train. There are more and more articles in the press, that 49€ is way too low.

josefx 2y ago
Isn't the 49€ ticket restricted to slower regional trains than the 150€ alternative? I still pay a small fortune traveling between west and east germany to save a few hours of travel time.
- NeoTar 2y ago
  It depends on where the parent commenter is living - in Berlin I was paying over 80 EUR a month for a travel card which only applied in the state of Berlin before the Deutschland ticket () - I could believe that a monthly pass for other cities (Frankfurt?) could reach 150 EUR. ( Not directly before, there was the 9 EUR ticket in summer '22, and then BVG offered their monthly ticket for 29 EUR for a while).
- account42 2y ago
  Even for slower trains you could easily pay well above 49€ before. Even just a montly ticket for the city where I live cost over 60€ and that still required you to pay extra for regional trains to nearby towns. That doesn't mean that 49€ is too low as both prices are subsidized (explicitly for the 49€ ticket and indirectly via infrastructure grants before).
- gpvos 2y ago
  I'm not sure exactly which former ticket they meant, but such an approx. 150€ ticket was probably not just restricted to regional transport just like the Deutschlandticket, but also only valid in a small part of the country. Prices would have varied somewhat by federal state or region. The card that gives free travel on all trains costs €380 per month (€4550/y).

RandomLensman 2y ago

It's public transport - does it even need to pay for itself?

unpopularopp 2y ago
You are asking this on a site where the majority would sell their soul for 1% more profit
- robertlagrant 2y ago
  This service isn't making a profit if it isn't even making enough to do maintenance.
robertlagrant 2y ago
Charging for use below what it costs to maintain that use is probably a bad idea.
- myworkinisgood 2y ago
  You can also pay the deficit from other taxes. That way, rich people can subsidize transport for poor people. Almost free public transportation helps people lead richer lives, so its also a productivity/quality of life issue.
- RandomLensman 2y ago
  Why? Is the military breaking even, for example? Societies can decide how to spend their resources and it can be subsidies to things people want to have exist.
  - robertlagrant 2y ago
    The military isn't saying "pay $5 to crash a tank". They aren't creating pricing that causes a deficit.
    - 2y ago

myworkinisgood 2y ago

I think so, yes. Just going by how many people are using the service now and going to nearby towns to visit other people or roam around, the ticket should pay a significant part of itself in taxes soon enough.

usr1106 2y ago

Of course 49€ a month for unlimited local/regional travel is not economic. But it has nothing to do with DB. Local/regional traffic is ordered and financed by the states (Länder). The 49€ ticket is a political project. DB has long distance, local/regional, and freight business. How much local/regional traffic companies are harmed by the 49€ ticket I have no numbers handy. But I feel DB is impacted relatively little compared to many other operators.

account42 2y ago
The local companies are the ones where most people buy their 49€ ticket while I imagine DB gets almost no income from it. Doesn't really matter though as both DB and local operators receive subsidies anyway, including ones specifically introduced for the 49€ ticket.