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I will never forget the Ghost of Kiev nonsense. As an American, I wish we’d stay out of the Ukraine war. The Ukrainians have actual Nazis. And no, that isn’t “

I will never forget the Ghost of Kiev nonsense. As an American, I wish we’d stay out of the Ukraine war. The Ukrainians have actual Nazis. And no, that isn’t “propaganda.” The Russians were wrong to invade but the Ukrainians aren’t any more righteous. But it isn’t my problem — tens of billions of American tax dollars are going to Ukraine with no accountability. In the U.S., open borders policies have led to the rape and murder of a 12 year old girl in Houston, along with many other high profile violent murders by illegal aliens who should have been blocked from entry and deported. Trump wanted $5 billion for a border wall — Democrats said “we can’t afford that” — and then promptly send $100 billion to Ukraine when Biden’s elected. I am not arguing for a border wall, but it’s curious how “we can’t afford it” but found plenty of billions to support a country with whom Biden has a financial history. The profound quickness with which the left wing in the U.S. started displaying Ukrainian flags and hashtags ought to be studied. The Ukraine propaganda machine took American money and spends it to convince Americans to give more money. Astounding how clever that was. Ukraine can’t win this war and I’m tired of paying for it. If they want to keep fighting, then they can keep funding it.

maeln 2y ago
Petty change to have the possibility to disrupt one of your biggest rival on the world stage without having to shed a single drop of american blood ? Looks to me Like a pretty good deal.
- alex00 2y ago
  The Ukraine War though has been now transformed into an Afghanistan War. No end in sight, wasting a lot of money, and a distraction to important issues. Also it has been empowering the opposition against the dollar. The US cannot support a 34 trillion dollar debt if fewer countries use the dollar.
  - Mordisquitos 2y ago
    > The Ukraine War though has been now transformed into an Afghanistan War. No end in sight, wasting a lot of money, and a distraction to important issues. Indeed, the analogy is obvious. Just like the Afghanistan Wars were a waste of lives, money, and morale for its invaders —USSR (1979-89) & USA (2001-21)—, so is the Ukrainian War being the same kind of waste for the invading Russia (2014/2022-...).
    - alex00 2y ago
      We put the Ukrainian nationalists in power in 2014 and gave them a life purpose to hate Russia. The Russians lost their cool and invaded in 2022. They expected a quick resolution but we did not let the Ukrainians accept a truce on their terms. Now the Ukrainians are disintegrating. We will never give them any billions of dollars to fix their country. We will dump them and it is Russia's problem now. We are erasing any information that we instigated the 2014 events. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/American_involvement_in_the_2013%E2%80%932014_Ukrainian_Revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletio...
- dewclin 2y ago
  > without having to shed a single drop of american blood And 10's of thousands of Ukrainian dead and wounded, lives and families destroyed, is a small price to pay for American hegemony.
  - maeln 2y ago
    Ah yes, because surely they wouldn't be dead or wounded if the US didn't send weapons their way. Remember the early days of the Russian invasion when Russian soldier raped and killed civilian and made mass graves ?
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
piva00 2y ago
> The Ukrainians have actual Nazis. The USA also has actual Nazis. > But it isn’t my problem — tens of billions of American tax dollars are going to Ukraine with no accountability. In the U.S., open borders policies have led to the rape and murder of a 12 year old girl in Houston, along with many other high profile violent murders by illegal aliens who should have been blocked from entry and deported. It is your problem, the destabilisation of the world by allowing countries to take over swaths of others' territories is going to be your problem, it's not immediate but will be your problem if it's not contained. You know who else also rapes 12 years old? Your own citizens, inside their homes, their grandpas, their uncles, their dads, sometimes even their moms, those are the majority of cases of abuse of minors, not the boogeyman of immigrants. The worst social malaise of the USA is this unbounded individualism, as if you do not care about others but just "me me me". It's just a stupid and infantile way of thinking, unfortunately it's so pervasive in your society that you lose sight of any bigger picture, what matters is "me me me" and that blocks any rational thought outside of the sphere of your small and broken egos.
asimpletune 2y ago
Think about this: if Russia wins territory in the long term, it will be a first in 80 years. That is, the real reason why the Ukraine war is so important is Russia has violated the most important international rule, which is to invade another country seeking to annex their territory. The last century or so has actually been pretty peaceful, and it has been precisely due to the world not tolerating this. If they succeed it will compromise that peace and I promise you everyone will suffer. The best thing is for the whole world to have a defense-only pact, requiring everybody to band together and defeat any aggressor.
pjc50 2y ago
Fighting Russia in Ukraine is the alternative to fighting them in Poland and Estonia, then having to discuss who does the nuclear first strike. (the US has also long ignored what Russia has been doing in Syria, despite that being a contributor to the middle east polycrisis)
fjfaase 2y ago
Most of that money has been spend in the US and to replace old stocks of munition. I also guess that European countries (who have contributed together even more when including civilian support) are buying a lot of weapons from the US. The war also has shown that certain types of weapons are superior, the best kind of advertisement you can get, probably leading to additional sales of those weapons systems. Next, Ukraine is not waste land, but an important source of grain that is feeding large parts of the world. If those would come under control of Russia, it would lead to a lot of political influence. Russia (and China) are already getting more and more control over countries in Africa. The greatest growth of population and wealth is taking place in Africa at the moment. If those markets are lost to the East it will have a negative impact on the economy of the US. There must also a reason why the US is dragging this war on. The US in the past year has been very slow to deliver certain weapons systems (such as the F-16) and putting restrictions on the use of certain weapons systems (such as the restriction that military targets further away than 100 km (60 miles) from the border of Ukraine may not be hit). Although the F-16 is delivered by a coalition of European countries, the US had to give an export permit, and the US also has delayed the training of Ukrainian pilots. All these delays have permitted Russia to gain win on the battle field. There are even people who believe that the US government does not want Ukraine to win, because the war is causing so much damage to the economy of Russia.
- jemmyw 2y ago
  It's not just the money the US govt is spending in the US. The US and western military export industry is also getting a huge boost. Russia played a big part in exports before the war. The combination of needing to use their factories for the war in Ukraine and their equipment being demonstrably not great has decimated their export market. > There are even people who believe that the US government does not want Ukraine to win, because the war is causing so much damage to the economy of Russia. The US has absolutely, cynically, benefited from this war. It could have been stopped diplomatically, the US made no secret they believed Russia was preparing for an invasion. It was either calculated or pussyfooting, in my opinion.
  - r618 2y ago
racional 2y ago
The Ukrainians have actual Nazis. It has its share of fashy types, but very few "actual Nazis" in fact. Meanwhile the U.S., Canada, every European country, and Russia of course all have a solid contingent of the exact same kinds of folks -- probably in greater proportion than Ukraine. And no, that isn’t “propaganda.” It is a masterpiece of propaganda -- in the sense that the Nazi issue is wildly, ridiculously distorted and overblown as applies to Ukraine. And has precisely zero bearing on why the war came about and what should be done about it. Yet for some reason, it's literally the very first item on your list when you think of why the U.S. should ditch Ukraine and let Putin have his merry way with it.

maeln 2y ago

Petty change to have the possibility to disrupt one of your biggest rival on the world stage without having to shed a single drop of american blood ? Looks to me Like a pretty good deal.

alex00 2y ago
The Ukraine War though has been now transformed into an Afghanistan War. No end in sight, wasting a lot of money, and a distraction to important issues. Also it has been empowering the opposition against the dollar. The US cannot support a 34 trillion dollar debt if fewer countries use the dollar.
- Mordisquitos 2y ago
  > The Ukraine War though has been now transformed into an Afghanistan War. No end in sight, wasting a lot of money, and a distraction to important issues. Indeed, the analogy is obvious. Just like the Afghanistan Wars were a waste of lives, money, and morale for its invaders —USSR (1979-89) & USA (2001-21)—, so is the Ukrainian War being the same kind of waste for the invading Russia (2014/2022-...).
  - alex00 2y ago
    We put the Ukrainian nationalists in power in 2014 and gave them a life purpose to hate Russia. The Russians lost their cool and invaded in 2022. They expected a quick resolution but we did not let the Ukrainians accept a truce on their terms. Now the Ukrainians are disintegrating. We will never give them any billions of dollars to fix their country. We will dump them and it is Russia's problem now. We are erasing any information that we instigated the 2014 events. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/American_involvement_in_the_2013%E2%80%932014_Ukrainian_Revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletio...
dewclin 2y ago
> without having to shed a single drop of american blood And 10's of thousands of Ukrainian dead and wounded, lives and families destroyed, is a small price to pay for American hegemony.
- maeln 2y ago
  Ah yes, because surely they wouldn't be dead or wounded if the US didn't send weapons their way. Remember the early days of the Russian invasion when Russian soldier raped and killed civilian and made mass graves ?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]

piva00 2y ago

> The Ukrainians have actual Nazis. The USA also has actual Nazis. > But it isn’t my problem — tens of billions of American tax dollars are going to Ukraine with no accountability. In the U.S., open borders policies have led to the rape and murder of a 12 year old girl in Houston, along with many other high profile violent murders by illegal aliens who should have been blocked from entry and deported. It is your problem, the destabilisation of the world by allowing countries to take over swaths of others' territories is going to be your problem, it's not immediate but will be your problem if it's not contained. You know who else also rapes 12 years old? Your own citizens, inside their homes, their grandpas, their uncles, their dads, sometimes even their moms, those are the majority of cases of abuse of minors, not the boogeyman of immigrants. The worst social malaise of the USA is this unbounded individualism, as if you do not care about others but just "me me me". It's just a stupid and infantile way of thinking, unfortunately it's so pervasive in your society that you lose sight of any bigger picture, what matters is "me me me" and that blocks any rational thought outside of the sphere of your small and broken egos.

asimpletune 2y ago

Think about this: if Russia wins territory in the long term, it will be a first in 80 years. That is, the real reason why the Ukraine war is so important is Russia has violated the most important international rule, which is to invade another country seeking to annex their territory. The last century or so has actually been pretty peaceful, and it has been precisely due to the world not tolerating this. If they succeed it will compromise that peace and I promise you everyone will suffer. The best thing is for the whole world to have a defense-only pact, requiring everybody to band together and defeat any aggressor.

pjc50 2y ago

Fighting Russia in Ukraine is the alternative to fighting them in Poland and Estonia, then having to discuss who does the nuclear first strike. (the US has also long ignored what Russia has been doing in Syria, despite that being a contributor to the middle east polycrisis)

fjfaase 2y ago

Most of that money has been spend in the US and to replace old stocks of munition. I also guess that European countries (who have contributed together even more when including civilian support) are buying a lot of weapons from the US. The war also has shown that certain types of weapons are superior, the best kind of advertisement you can get, probably leading to additional sales of those weapons systems. Next, Ukraine is not waste land, but an important source of grain that is feeding large parts of the world. If those would come under control of Russia, it would lead to a lot of political influence. Russia (and China) are already getting more and more control over countries in Africa. The greatest growth of population and wealth is taking place in Africa at the moment. If those markets are lost to the East it will have a negative impact on the economy of the US. There must also a reason why the US is dragging this war on. The US in the past year has been very slow to deliver certain weapons systems (such as the F-16) and putting restrictions on the use of certain weapons systems (such as the restriction that military targets further away than 100 km (60 miles) from the border of Ukraine may not be hit). Although the F-16 is delivered by a coalition of European countries, the US had to give an export permit, and the US also has delayed the training of Ukrainian pilots. All these delays have permitted Russia to gain win on the battle field. There are even people who believe that the US government does not want Ukraine to win, because the war is causing so much damage to the economy of Russia.

jemmyw 2y ago
It's not just the money the US govt is spending in the US. The US and western military export industry is also getting a huge boost. Russia played a big part in exports before the war. The combination of needing to use their factories for the war in Ukraine and their equipment being demonstrably not great has decimated their export market. > There are even people who believe that the US government does not want Ukraine to win, because the war is causing so much damage to the economy of Russia. The US has absolutely, cynically, benefited from this war. It could have been stopped diplomatically, the US made no secret they believed Russia was preparing for an invasion. It was either calculated or pussyfooting, in my opinion.
- r618 2y ago

racional 2y ago

The Ukrainians have actual Nazis. It has its share of fashy types, but very few "actual Nazis" in fact. Meanwhile the U.S., Canada, every European country, and Russia of course all have a solid contingent of the exact same kinds of folks -- probably in greater proportion than Ukraine. And no, that isn’t “propaganda.” It is a masterpiece of propaganda -- in the sense that the Nazi issue is wildly, ridiculously distorted and overblown as applies to Ukraine. And has precisely zero bearing on why the war came about and what should be done about it. Yet for some reason, it's literally the very first item on your list when you think of why the U.S. should ditch Ukraine and let Putin have his merry way with it.