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"unable to issue citation to computer" is about the stupidest and laziest police response I have ever heard. I am beyond upset about this. It's obvious they c

by cbanek 2y ago

"unable to issue citation to computer" is about the stupidest and laziest police response I have ever heard. I am beyond upset about this. It's obvious they could issue a citation and send it to the address on the registration of the car, which is certainly Waymo or a company that could forward it to Waymo. If my parked car gets a ticket, they put it on the windshield. It's not some stupid response like "unable to issue citation to car with no one in it." Since the window was open, they could also tape it on the dash or put it on the driver's seat. There is no reason why Waymo should not get a citation and be forced to appear in court to explain themselves, just like everyone else. That is why the courts exist. But lazy cops seem to prevent this from happening.

uuddlrlrbaba 2y ago
The problem is software that drives an entire vehicle line is accountable. What you describe would hold an owner accountable. Like blaming a victim of a Toyota for a bug in the cruise control. But not the manufacturer of the software. It's an emerging thing and grey area for existing laws.
- cbanek 2y ago
  This seems like a strawman that isn't related to the individual case here. For Waymo the cars and the software are the same company. Even if they weren't, the car's owner can always blame the manufacturer of the car or any software running in it. That's why we have judges to figure out who's at fault. Think about the case of stuck accelerators: the driver of the car could be blamed for hitting something, but they say in court that they did not have their foot on the gas. This gets checked out and pushed onto the manufacturer of the car. This is old hat and has a lot of legal precedent. This is why we have recalls for this kind of issue. While the legal precedent may be a current grey area that doesn't mean it's impossible to give a citation to a driverless car. That is the beginning of getting the grey area into court where a judge can rule on things. Not giving a citation does nothing for anyone other than let Waymo get away from responsibility. Not only that, but if Waymo got a citation because of the openness of our court system everyone could see how it turns out and what arguments the company is making.
mindslight 2y ago
Capital wielding technology is one of the few trump cards to cops' customary demands of authorituh. Can't get very far trying to beat a metal car with their baton, so they're at a loss.
- cbanek 2y ago
  Cops beating self driving car with batons will be the new Officespace printer scene. Also the cops should let all the air out of the tires and boot the car for good measure.
  - mindslight 2y ago
    More like regular citizens when the self driving bubble kicks off in earnest and aimless investment buys as many cars as it did scooters, continually circling rather than merely blocking sidewalks.
josnyder 2y ago
Most jurisdictions make a distinction between moving violations, which are issued to the driver, and parking violations, which are issued to the car (and its owner, by extension). This is why, in most places, you cannot get points on your license from parking illegally. This situation would have been a moving violation. It sounds like the law has not caught up with the concept that a company might hold a driver's license and be issued moving violations.
m463 2y ago
I can see next generation of vanity license plate hacks: NODRIVER NOHUMAN
- cbanek 2y ago
  Just don't get the plate NULL, apparently that gets you a lot of trouble. https://www.wired.com/story/null-license-plate-landed-one-hacker-ticket-hell/ https://www.wired.com/story/null-license-plate-landed-one-ha...

by cbanek 2y ago

uuddlrlrbaba 2y ago

The problem is software that drives an entire vehicle line is accountable. What you describe would hold an owner accountable. Like blaming a victim of a Toyota for a bug in the cruise control. But not the manufacturer of the software. It's an emerging thing and grey area for existing laws.

cbanek 2y ago
This seems like a strawman that isn't related to the individual case here. For Waymo the cars and the software are the same company. Even if they weren't, the car's owner can always blame the manufacturer of the car or any software running in it. That's why we have judges to figure out who's at fault. Think about the case of stuck accelerators: the driver of the car could be blamed for hitting something, but they say in court that they did not have their foot on the gas. This gets checked out and pushed onto the manufacturer of the car. This is old hat and has a lot of legal precedent. This is why we have recalls for this kind of issue. While the legal precedent may be a current grey area that doesn't mean it's impossible to give a citation to a driverless car. That is the beginning of getting the grey area into court where a judge can rule on things. Not giving a citation does nothing for anyone other than let Waymo get away from responsibility. Not only that, but if Waymo got a citation because of the openness of our court system everyone could see how it turns out and what arguments the company is making.

mindslight 2y ago

Capital wielding technology is one of the few trump cards to cops' customary demands of authorituh. Can't get very far trying to beat a metal car with their baton, so they're at a loss.

cbanek 2y ago
Cops beating self driving car with batons will be the new Officespace printer scene. Also the cops should let all the air out of the tires and boot the car for good measure.
- mindslight 2y ago
  More like regular citizens when the self driving bubble kicks off in earnest and aimless investment buys as many cars as it did scooters, continually circling rather than merely blocking sidewalks.

josnyder 2y ago

Most jurisdictions make a distinction between moving violations, which are issued to the driver, and parking violations, which are issued to the car (and its owner, by extension). This is why, in most places, you cannot get points on your license from parking illegally. This situation would have been a moving violation. It sounds like the law has not caught up with the concept that a company might hold a driver's license and be issued moving violations.

m463 2y ago

I can see next generation of vanity license plate hacks: NODRIVER NOHUMAN

cbanek 2y ago
Just don't get the plate NULL, apparently that gets you a lot of trouble. https://www.wired.com/story/null-license-plate-landed-one-hacker-ticket-hell/ https://www.wired.com/story/null-license-plate-landed-one-ha...