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The Diamond Sutra, the oldest dated printed book (2016)
- kragen 2y agothe prc has recently enacted export control regulations to prevent strategic technologies from falling into the hands of geopolitical rivals such as the usa. among the first four items on the list, presumably included as a sort of joke, are papermaking techniques and movable type [my error, not movable type; see below]
- popcalc 2y agoI'm trying to find a source for this.
- kragen 2y agoapparently i misremembered; papermaking and ink are on the list, but not printing or movable type from http://images.mofcom.gov.cn/fms/202312/20231221153855374.pdf http://images.mofcom.gov.cn/fms/202312/20231221153855374.pdf 4 造纸和 纸制品 业 082201J 造纸技术 1.宣纸的生产工艺 2.迁安书画纸的配方及生产工艺 also, item #6 is gunpowder; i think the chinese government wanted to remind the so-called west that all their wars have been fought with chinese technology for centuries
- yorwba 2y agoI'm pretty sure the document is not directed at anyone in the West (big hint: it's not in English) but rather for internal consumption. Hence also listing traditional Chinese medicine, which is irrelevant for the West, even historically, but plays an important domestic propaganda role as an equal-opportunity competitor to "Western" (i.e. evidence-based) medicine. As for the technology used to fight wars, as early as the Ming dynasty, cannons were re-imported from Portugal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hongyipao https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hongyipao . Technology transfer has rarely been a one-way street.
- kragen 2y agoit's a law, not a press release; both are largely motivated by public relations, but the dynamics are very different. in particular none of china's laws are in english, as i imagine none of the laws of your country (nigeria?) are in chinese a lot of the particular traditional chinese medicines mentioned are not at all irrelevant to the west
- bitzun 2y agoBeing unable to trust my ability to translate and parse the linked document, what particular traditional chinese medicines mentioned are relevant to the west?
- kragen 2y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trametes_versicolor#Uses_and_research https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trametes_versicolor#Uses_and_r... andhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matsutake#Uses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matsutake#Uses are two of them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aconitine#Uses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aconitine#Uses is extracted from 川乌 or 草乌. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordycepin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordycepin is extracted from cordyceps sinensis. 蟾酥 is https://www.erowid.org/animals/toads/toads_health1.shtml https://www.erowid.org/animals/toads/toads_health1.shtml. 马钱子 is a commonly used rat poison and human users described it as 'the paleolithic in a bottle': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strychnine#Other_Uses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strychnine#Other_Uses (the only person i know who injected it regretted it) aside from pharmaceutically interesting compounds, 龙血竭 has been commonly used in the 'west' as a furniture polish for centuries
- vintagedave 2y ago> the only person i know who injected it regretted it Knowing of strychnine only as rat poison until today (I didn’t know about the uses in the Wikipedia page) may I ask — what happened to this person?
- temporarely 2y agoLikely not a joke, rather a pointed "look how ridiculous it is to try and contain basic technology" and also an implicit that China did not lose out its power position due to "stealing of Chinese technology".
- carld 2y agoFull translated English text: https://diamond-sutra.com/read-the-diamond-sutra-here/ https://diamond-sutra.com/read-the-diamond-sutra-here/ My favorite passages: “This is how to contemplate our conditioned existence in this fleeting world:” “Like a tiny drop of dew, or a bubble floating in a stream; Like a flash of lightning in a summer cloud, Or a flickering lamp, an illusion, a phantom, or a dream.” “So is all conditioned existence to be seen.”
- ars 2y agoWhat does "conditioned" mean in that sentence?
- mmoskal 2y agoEverything that is experienced except for awareness itself.
- tgdude 2y agohttps://tricycle.org/beginners/buddhism/dependent-origination/ https://tricycle.org/beginners/buddhism/dependent-originatio... Dependent origination (Skt: pratityasamutpada, Pali: paticca-samuppada) is also known as conditioned co-arising and several other terms. Buddhism teaches that everything that exists is conditioned—dependent on something else. This applies to thoughts as well as objects, to the individual as well as the entire universe. Nothing exists independently. Everything is conditioned. This concept is illustrated in the Buddhist teachings of the chain of dependent origination, which describes the factors that perpetuate the cycle of birth, death, and rebirth. The twelve links in the chain are sequential, each factor causing the following one: Because of this, that arises. When this ceases, that also ceases. The links form a never-ending cycle that binds us to suffering, and the goal of Buddhist practice is to escape from this vicious cycle. Though there is more than one version of the sequence of links, they commonly run this way: - Ignorance - Mental formations - Consciousness - Name and form - The senses: sight, hearing, smell, touch, taste, and mind - Contact - Feeling - Craving - Clinging - Becoming - Birth - Aging and death
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- throwup238 2y agoI think there's some minor controversy over whether it's the oldest printed book. There are some printed fragments of the Lotus sutra and Dharani sutra that might be 100+ years older.
- DiscourseFan 2y agoThen its the oldest complete text. Fragments aren't themselves a book, just evidence of one.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- teruakohatu 2y agoIt seems it’s a stretch to call it a book, as it’s a scroll just 6,000 words long. Shorter than a journal article. The oldest complete dated document would seem better.
- dudinax 2y agoThe article is careful to say the oldest dated printed book.
- MrLeap 2y agoI love the Diamond Sutra. I read it every few years. To me, it's very funny. how can one read about all the absolutely galactic scale quantity of "merit" to be gained right next to explanations about the illusory nature of words without laughing? It's layered like an onion. One layer is meant to free people from illbeing. Another layer is for error correction codes and to make the message 'viral'. Another layer opened my eyes to incontrovertible truth about the noisy approximations and lossy signals that comprise the the human experience. So many layers read rather mystically at first, but you can always cut through it and find out it's not magic, it's really the way things are. From another angle, it's a blob of metadata around a packet that contains instructions to all sentient beings -- in my words: "Relax. Be compassionate to yourself and others. All barriers to compassion are illusions. Tell this to other people. If you need to reformat the content as a listicle to get through to grandma, that's cool." There's other angles. It's a fascinating document. I believe the massively intelligent person(s) who composed it had a sincere objective to help all life.
- DiscourseFan 2y agoI never considered it as a text that attempts to show how quantity is always a kind of quality, so no matter how much you do something, it won't change how you exist in the world unless you change how you do it. What people are really after with weed and psychedelics is that kind of qualitative change, especially at the level of consciousness. But with dependent origination, changing how you in particular perceive the world does not actually change the world that you are a part of, and therefore doesn't lead to qualitative change of experience. What must be done, instead, is to change the world. True liberation is absolute.
- 613style 2y ago> changing how you in particular perceive the world does not actually change the world that you are a part of It's impossible to change yourself without changing the world, because those two things are not separate. Further, much of the world exists only as abstract ideas in my mind. When I change how I relate to and perceive them, I do change them in every way that matters.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- johndhi 2y agoCan't resist also suggesting to those interested, listening to Osho's discourses on the Diamond Sutra, available here: https://oshoworld.com/the-diamond-sutra-by-osho-01-11/ https://oshoworld.com/the-diamond-sutra-by-osho-01-11/
- fuzztester 2y agoOsho has talked about many many more Buddhist topics (as well as tons of other topics, both "spiritual" or "religious", and other), including particularly, but not only, Zen (Buddhism). He has talked, incisively, and extensively, about many Zen and other Buddhist masters' words. Most of his work is interesting, IMO. Some people feel shattered, because their dearly held beliefs are shattered by his words. For topics, see an incomplete list at the bottom of the page linkrd above.
- DasCorCor 2y agoDestroyed like he destroyed those people’s digestive tracts with the salmonella his cult put in the salad bar?
- hargup 2y agoGet your comment, and had a similar bias against him from “Wild Wild Country”. But when I read his work, was blown by how good it is. Definitely worth a try. My first Osho book was “Meeting with Remarkable People”.
- DasCorCor 2y agoBro. Successful cult leaders are really good at what they do. Stay away. Believe people when they show you who they are.
- fuzztester 2y agopoor logic. there is a contradiction between your second and fourth sentences. can you even see it? i doubt it, since you are the one who wrote it. go attend logic 101 somewhere, pass it successfully, only then come back to talk. if you fail, don't come back.
- elevaet 2y ago> So you should view this fleeting world— > A star at dawn, a bubble in a stream, > A flash of lightening in a summer cloud, > A flickering lamp, a phantom, and a dream. row row row your boat gently down the stream merrily merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream
- harimau777 2y agoIs there an English translation that is considered particularly important (perhaps comparable to the King James version of the Bible?) or particularly well translated?
- sudasana 2y agoThe British Library online scan is fantastic and well worth a close look. They also have pre-restoration images of the scroll. Seeing it in person is a little disappointing since they only unroll a bit of it at any time.
- lexicality 2y agoGot any good alternative sources while their website is offline? I was a little bit disappointed to see they haven't restored access yet.
- savoyard 2y agohttps://idp.bl.uk/collection/51FDAEAFB4A24E2E9981692A98130BC8/ https://idp.bl.uk/collection/51FDAEAFB4A24E2E9981692A98130BC...
- Log_out_ 2y agoBooks like this are a advocate that a countries cultural heritage should be spread around the world to survive localized bildersturm and destruction by fanatics . Oh and digital copies,while the real thing gets hidden.
- getpost 2y agoKen McLeod[0] is teaching a 6 week class Tuesday evenings on the Diamond Sutra at The Alembic[1][2] in Berkeley. The first class was last week. It may be possible to join now and watch the first class online. Ken recommends the Red Pine[3] and Thich Nhat Hanh[4] translations. [0] https://unfetteredmind.org/ https://unfetteredmind.org/ [1] http://berkeleyalembic.org/ http://berkeleyalembic.org/ [2] https://www.eventbrite.com/cc/practicing-the-diamond-sutra-with-ken-mcleod-3439939 https://www.eventbrite.com/cc/practicing-the-diamond-sutra-w... [3] https://www.amazon.com/Diamond-Sutra-Red-Pine/dp/1582432562/ https://www.amazon.com/Diamond-Sutra-Red-Pine/dp/1582432562/ [4] https://www.amazon.com/Diamond-That-Cuts-Through-Illusion/dp/1935209442/ https://www.amazon.com/Diamond-That-Cuts-Through-Illusion/dp...
- bamboozled 2y agoThat’s, I love Thich. I once visited Plum Village. What an amazing time it was.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Ozzie_osman 2y agoGiven this was smuggled out of China, it feels like it belongs in a museum in China rather than in Britain.
- manquer 2y agoMost of the artifacts in British museums are stolen. Sometimes those artifacts are not just historical, they have real world use today, like idols or religious objects used in active worship . They still don’t return it British policies and views around this issue has always been terrible . John Oliver had a segment summarizing the situation https://youtu.be/eJPLiT1kCSM?si=BqGytuakYPC0O4Xw https://youtu.be/eJPLiT1kCSM?si=BqGytuakYPC0O4Xw many countries (especially China) have nationalization laws which makes the state the owner of any cultural artifact so claim of legal ownership by a British institution sketchy at best. it would be quite difficult or even impossible to be able prove provenance. Highly doubt any religious or state institution which was the custodian of the piece pre British times , legally sold with documentation to anyone that can be proved today, so ownership would default to the state . these are national laws not in UNESCO treaties so cannot be enforced outside national borders .
- habosa 2y agoThe article sentence mentions that this is in the British Library, and I assume it’s in the Treasures Gallery? If you’re ever in London, you owe it to yourself to stop there. It’s a room on the first floor of the library, free to enter without any kind of ticket 7 days a week. In this one room is the most incredible display of printed works you’ll ever find. Everything from a copy of the Magna Carta to Florence Nightingale‘s notebooks to Anne Boleyn’s Tyndale bible to Beatles lyrics on a napkin. There’s no collection like it anywhere in the world and it’s all in one medium-sized room.
- adamredwoods 2y agoKUOW, a local radio station, had a segment on Red Pine and his upcoming documentary on translations. Apparently, he's very popular in China. https://www.kuow.org/stories/bill-porter-port-townsend-zen-poetry-documentary-china-seattle-screening-dancing-with-the-dead https://www.kuow.org/stories/bill-porter-port-townsend-zen-p...
- teddyX 2y agoStolen treasure at the British Museum. Shocker.
- russianasset 2y ago[flagged]
- blueprint 2y agoespecially as combined with Buddha's explanation in his subsequent Lotus Sutra that he realized he was like the father of all beings, I find the recent discovery of treatment for structural dissociation and parts work to be a highly interesting corollary to the Diamond Sutra. https://janinafisher.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/structural-dissociation.pdf https://janinafisher.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/structur... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RHQ9GFZ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RHQ9GFZ