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The flags a blatant dog whistle for stop the steal white Christian nationalists. If you’re not discussing this fact you’re not having the same conversation and

The flags a blatant dog whistle for stop the steal white Christian nationalists. If you’re not discussing this fact you’re not having the same conversation and I’m not engaging with people who pick what’s convenient to their agenda.

sickofparadox 2y ago
If you legitimately believe that, you are spending too much time being radicalized on the internet. The flag has been used by hundreds of groups across its 200+ year history, right and left. https://ravenewworld.substack.com/p/midnight-joyride https://ravenewworld.substack.com/p/midnight-joyride
- Forgeties79 2y ago
  It doesn’t matter how it has historically been used, it matters how it is being used now. What they are describing is accurate. I heard comments like yours all the time when people were saying we needed to take QAnon more seriously. People thought it was fringe, that people concerned were “terminally online.” Even as we saw their talking points work their way into mainstream conservative outlets. Then January 6th happened. Everyone knows what QAnon is now.
  - skissane 2y ago
    > It doesn’t matter how it has historically been used, it matters how it is being used now. What they are describing is accurate. Did you notice that the link in the comment you were replying to, has a photo of that “Appeal to Heaven” flag from a Black Lives Matter protest in 2020? And it seems clear it was being flown by BLM supporters, not anti-BLM counterprotestors. You want to claim that other meanings are purely historical and in contemporary usage it exclusively means “white Christian nationalist”. If the only other examples of its usage people could point to were from decades ago, your argument might have some force. But, given we have photographic evidence of people with a diametrically opposite ideology using it less than 5 years ago, your argument is not very convincing.
    - Forgeties79 2y ago
      You can’t divorce his politics from the discussion. The people who he politically/ideologically agrees with on the right fly this flag specifically. Other groups also fly it. It can mean different things to different people. My argument is not nearly as myopic as you’re making it out to be.
      - skissane 2y ago
        You keep on assuming his politics is the same as his wife’s. Even if they are both on the right, the right is a very big place, where people have different positions on various issues. Even assuming that flag tells us where exactly on the right Martha resides - and I’m not sure it does, maybe she flew it because she liked how it looked as opposed to as an exercise in political expression - we still can’t assume that Samuel resides in the same political location.
        Forgeties79 2y ago
        I don’t need to assume, we have a lot of insight into why those flags were flown. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/show/former-neighbor-disputes-alitos-explanation-of-upside-down-u-s-flag-flying-at-his-home https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/show/former-neighbor-disput... Their bogus excuse is very damning. Or at least real event they used as an excuse, but the timeline doesn’t make sense, so they’re lying.
        skissane 2y ago
        There are two different flags at issue here–the upside-down American flag, and the "Appeal to Heaven"–the former was flown at their main residence, the second at their vacation home. Both have long histories of being used all over the political spectrum (both right and left), to mean lots of different things. The article you are citing is relying on the claims of an angry former neighbour. Why assume that the Alito's are lying or mistaken, when it seems just as possible that their ex-neighbour could be. In any event, even if we assume the ex-neighbour's claims are 100% true, they still don't prove (1) that Martha Alito flew the flag with intention to express a highly specific political message, (2) even supposing that was her intention, it still doesn't prove Samuel Alito was supporting her expressive act, as opposed to simply allowing his wife to do what she wants to do.
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 2y ago
  Typical doublespeak. Hitler stole the swastika and christofascists stole another flag. I’ve been following white nationalists for long enough to have seen this dynamic countless times. Old dog whistle gets them too easily identified so a new one gets picked up and then the cycle repeats.

sickofparadox 2y ago

If you legitimately believe that, you are spending too much time being radicalized on the internet. The flag has been used by hundreds of groups across its 200+ year history, right and left. https://ravenewworld.substack.com/p/midnight-joyride https://ravenewworld.substack.com/p/midnight-joyride

Forgeties79 2y ago
It doesn’t matter how it has historically been used, it matters how it is being used now. What they are describing is accurate. I heard comments like yours all the time when people were saying we needed to take QAnon more seriously. People thought it was fringe, that people concerned were “terminally online.” Even as we saw their talking points work their way into mainstream conservative outlets. Then January 6th happened. Everyone knows what QAnon is now.
- skissane 2y ago
  > It doesn’t matter how it has historically been used, it matters how it is being used now. What they are describing is accurate. Did you notice that the link in the comment you were replying to, has a photo of that “Appeal to Heaven” flag from a Black Lives Matter protest in 2020? And it seems clear it was being flown by BLM supporters, not anti-BLM counterprotestors. You want to claim that other meanings are purely historical and in contemporary usage it exclusively means “white Christian nationalist”. If the only other examples of its usage people could point to were from decades ago, your argument might have some force. But, given we have photographic evidence of people with a diametrically opposite ideology using it less than 5 years ago, your argument is not very convincing.
  - Forgeties79 2y ago
    You can’t divorce his politics from the discussion. The people who he politically/ideologically agrees with on the right fly this flag specifically. Other groups also fly it. It can mean different things to different people. My argument is not nearly as myopic as you’re making it out to be.
    - skissane 2y ago
      You keep on assuming his politics is the same as his wife’s. Even if they are both on the right, the right is a very big place, where people have different positions on various issues. Even assuming that flag tells us where exactly on the right Martha resides - and I’m not sure it does, maybe she flew it because she liked how it looked as opposed to as an exercise in political expression - we still can’t assume that Samuel resides in the same political location.
      - Forgeties79 2y ago
        I don’t need to assume, we have a lot of insight into why those flags were flown. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/show/former-neighbor-disputes-alitos-explanation-of-upside-down-u-s-flag-flying-at-his-home https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/show/former-neighbor-disput... Their bogus excuse is very damning. Or at least real event they used as an excuse, but the timeline doesn’t make sense, so they’re lying.
        skissane 2y ago
        There are two different flags at issue here–the upside-down American flag, and the "Appeal to Heaven"–the former was flown at their main residence, the second at their vacation home. Both have long histories of being used all over the political spectrum (both right and left), to mean lots of different things. The article you are citing is relying on the claims of an angry former neighbour. Why assume that the Alito's are lying or mistaken, when it seems just as possible that their ex-neighbour could be. In any event, even if we assume the ex-neighbour's claims are 100% true, they still don't prove (1) that Martha Alito flew the flag with intention to express a highly specific political message, (2) even supposing that was her intention, it still doesn't prove Samuel Alito was supporting her expressive act, as opposed to simply allowing his wife to do what she wants to do.
Red_Leaves_Flyy 2y ago
Typical doublespeak. Hitler stole the swastika and christofascists stole another flag. I’ve been following white nationalists for long enough to have seen this dynamic countless times. Old dog whistle gets them too easily identified so a new one gets picked up and then the cycle repeats.