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I don’t think that this is a war that employers can win. Employees got a taste of freedom, and it’s hard to go back.

GlickWick 2y ago
We will see. The EU is more employee-friendly than the US of course, but so far US corps are winning the war there.
alephnerd 2y ago
My old employer did in Czechia - 2 day hybrid or move to Romania, Poland, or India. Foreign Tech Companies get tax holidays from the Czech, Romanian, Polish, Bulgarian, Hungarian, etc governments if we invest $2-5mil in an office AND can prove that we have at least 15-20 employees working in that office, so we need to force employees in the office otherwise there's no point having a presence there. The Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian workers are much less pushy about it as well.
- ablation 2y ago
  So long, I guess, don't let the door hit you on the way out? Employees of that company must feel really valued.
  - alephnerd 2y ago
    > Employees of that company must feel really valued They were paid on the higher end of Czechia TCs > don't let the door hit you on the way out Most of the high TC companies across Eastern Europe required hybrid so there aren't many options if you want to be remote first - we get tax holidays from the Czech, Romanian, Polish, Bulgarian, Hungarian, etc government if we invest $2-5mil in an office AND can prove that we have at least 15-20 employees working in that office. It's hard to justify high wages when fully remote means you are competing globally. The Czech office itself expanded as a reaction to finding out that remote productivity between the US and abroad was comparable. Going remote first means you are competing with a global market, but being hybrid means you at least have facetime with leaders, and stuff does get done faster when dealing with cross-dependencies. And ime, I saw the rise of the same kind of anti-techie disgust in a lot of Eastern Europe that I saw in the US. It's hard for most people in a country where median household incomes are around $10k-20k/yr to empathize with employees earning $50-100k/yr who want to not go into a fully furnished office with catered food, events, and mentorship 2-3 days a week when most other employees earn a fraction working in a car factory or tending bar for drunk stag partiers while rents reach Dallas levels.
    - portaouflop 2y ago
      >fully furnished office with catered food, events, and mentorship 2-3 days a week The reality is you scramble to find a workstation and are cramped in a tiny room with 10 others, there is no way to concentrate and be productive; catered food that is barely edible for humans and horrible for the environment; not sure what you mean by events, except pointless ones that are scheduled after work, so basically unpaid work; and mentorship don’t make me laugh. As I stated above I’m more than happy to work in a different industry than tech, it’s toxic af, the workload is high and growing and ultimately most tech companies are nothing than managers of rich peoples money and don’t provide any value to humans.
portaouflop 2y ago
I’m happy to switch industries if they want me back in the office shrug
techostritch 2y ago
I have to imagine employers will be using the global turn right to attack worker protections at every angle. I would be surprised if something wasn’t significantly clawed back over the next 10 years.
silverquiet 2y ago
Speaking as an employee, I like the taste of a paycheck more - I guess I'm weak that way.
- kkfx 2y ago
  If you'll own nothing in 2030 the taste of your paycheck will be just hypocrisies though... Freedom means risks, hard situations, hazards, but also opportunity and being able to walk on their own feet instead of being at the mercy of someone else. One reasons our society implode is that so many have traded short-time benefits other long times goals and as a results we are all LESS stable than before.
jayd16 2y ago
Why not? It's not like offices have a solid union culture to organize or anything. We want better pay too but the income gap widens.

We will see. The EU is more employee-friendly than the US of course, but so far US corps are winning the war there.

My old employer did in Czechia - 2 day hybrid or move to Romania, Poland, or India. Foreign Tech Companies get tax holidays from the Czech, Romanian, Polish, Bulgarian, Hungarian, etc governments if we invest $2-5mil in an office AND can prove that we have at least 15-20 employees working in that office, so we need to force employees in the office otherwise there's no point having a presence there. The Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian workers are much less pushy about it as well.

ablation 2y ago
So long, I guess, don't let the door hit you on the way out? Employees of that company must feel really valued.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  > Employees of that company must feel really valued They were paid on the higher end of Czechia TCs > don't let the door hit you on the way out Most of the high TC companies across Eastern Europe required hybrid so there aren't many options if you want to be remote first - we get tax holidays from the Czech, Romanian, Polish, Bulgarian, Hungarian, etc government if we invest $2-5mil in an office AND can prove that we have at least 15-20 employees working in that office. It's hard to justify high wages when fully remote means you are competing globally. The Czech office itself expanded as a reaction to finding out that remote productivity between the US and abroad was comparable. Going remote first means you are competing with a global market, but being hybrid means you at least have facetime with leaders, and stuff does get done faster when dealing with cross-dependencies. And ime, I saw the rise of the same kind of anti-techie disgust in a lot of Eastern Europe that I saw in the US. It's hard for most people in a country where median household incomes are around $10k-20k/yr to empathize with employees earning $50-100k/yr who want to not go into a fully furnished office with catered food, events, and mentorship 2-3 days a week when most other employees earn a fraction working in a car factory or tending bar for drunk stag partiers while rents reach Dallas levels.
  - portaouflop 2y ago
    >fully furnished office with catered food, events, and mentorship 2-3 days a week The reality is you scramble to find a workstation and are cramped in a tiny room with 10 others, there is no way to concentrate and be productive; catered food that is barely edible for humans and horrible for the environment; not sure what you mean by events, except pointless ones that are scheduled after work, so basically unpaid work; and mentorship don’t make me laugh. As I stated above I’m more than happy to work in a different industry than tech, it’s toxic af, the workload is high and growing and ultimately most tech companies are nothing than managers of rich peoples money and don’t provide any value to humans.

portaouflop 2y ago

I’m happy to switch industries if they want me back in the office shrug

techostritch 2y ago

I have to imagine employers will be using the global turn right to attack worker protections at every angle. I would be surprised if something wasn’t significantly clawed back over the next 10 years.

silverquiet 2y ago

Speaking as an employee, I like the taste of a paycheck more - I guess I'm weak that way.

kkfx 2y ago
If you'll own nothing in 2030 the taste of your paycheck will be just hypocrisies though... Freedom means risks, hard situations, hazards, but also opportunity and being able to walk on their own feet instead of being at the mercy of someone else. One reasons our society implode is that so many have traded short-time benefits other long times goals and as a results we are all LESS stable than before.

jayd16 2y ago

Why not? It's not like offices have a solid union culture to organize or anything. We want better pay too but the income gap widens.