4 ms·

> In reality, there is a whole lot more to lighting then simply having lights and materials that behave naturally. For example? (genuinely curious)

photon137 14y ago
Raytracing for one. Also, none of the graphics engines really capture the wave-nature of light - intereference/diffraction etc. Radiosity captures a bit of this but from an intensity/energy point of view.
- photon137 14y ago
  Oh sorry, I missed the point :) Artistic lighting - now that's a different thing!
daenz 14y ago
Achieving a specific mood or "feel" for an environment requires someone who is very sensitive to lighting, color, and architecture, and who has knowledge of techniques to achieve certain looks. For example, if you want an ominous feel to a cathedral, you need to know what light colors are more ominous than others, what direction of lighting (maybe bottom up, rather than from the top), what types of lights...many dim point lights? or single directional lights?, if light scattering through a medium like fog would look good, etc etc. And also keeping in mind functional aspects like, can the player still see items or things he needs to do, even with all of this specific lighting. Another example might be that while lighting and materials might behave naturally, sometimes they still behave in undesireable ways. Suppose the angle of the sun reflected off of a reflective surface right into the player's face right while he was at a specific location where he needed to do something. If you can't move the surface, can you shift the light? Will that effect the scene much? Maybe now that you shifted the light, the rays of light that were going through a tree branch beautifully are not there any more.
- wmf 14y ago
  Getting back to UE4, if its lights behave more like real-world lights it may allow game artists to translate real-world lighting knowledge into games or let them spend less time working around kinks in the engine.
  - daenz 14y ago
    Definitely true. We draw our experience on lights from the real world, so the closer an engine is to the real world, the faster the artists can prototype and test lighting setups.
    - jsprinkles 14y ago
      There's a lot of untapped creativity from the masters of film and television production in gaming, because the skills don't map well. I'm definitely keen to see what happens to that situation once the engines get closer to simulating the real world. The possibilities are endless, since suddenly a great lighting director's skill set is much more valuable to a team working on a AAA title. That isn't to say this doesn't happen now, just that it's only going to get better.
    - MartinCron 14y ago
      As a still photographer who sometimes works with multiple off-camera lights (strobist-style) I would love to be able to experiment in software to see a very close approximation of how a setup would look.
      - daenz 14y ago
        I'm not aware of any photographer-centric photorealistic 3d apps, but that sounds like a potential niche business! Might be worth exploring.
        ISeemToBeAVerb 14y ago
        I have a plugin for Cinema 4D called "HDRI Studio Kit" that is basically a set of predefined studio lights and lighting setups. Makes it very simple to light objects using traditional photographic methods. You have various tent setups, soft-boxes, umbrella lights, etc...
anigbrowl 14y ago
Natural light is boring, and often distracting. As a very simple example, I live in an old house and have windows broken into small square panels. For a scene where someone is looking through that window I would put a light outside to make a shadow on their face for dramatic effect, even if the sun was not really coming from that direction or if it was raining (which usually softens shadows). But if I was showing the same person looking back into the room, then the shadow on their back would be a distraction from what was inside the room, so I would soften the lighting or put a screen to limit the natural light, and fill in the darker areas of the room with a soft light. Look at old film noir movies on TV, they have very exaggerated lighting for dramatic effect.Often you are reducing light to remove information from the scene, so that the viewer can focus on the dramatic subject.
- TrevorJ 14y ago
  Even when they do shoot outdoors during the day in films, you have scrims, bounce cards, 12k lights and all manner of things to control the light. Also, DP's try to shoot exteriors during golden hour a few hours after sunrise or before sunset, to get softer and warmer light. If you have to shoot mid day, you try to either use a scrim or you pray for clouds to soften the harsh light.

photon137 14y ago

Raytracing for one. Also, none of the graphics engines really capture the wave-nature of light - intereference/diffraction etc. Radiosity captures a bit of this but from an intensity/energy point of view.

photon137 14y ago
Oh sorry, I missed the point :) Artistic lighting - now that's a different thing!

daenz 14y ago

Achieving a specific mood or "feel" for an environment requires someone who is very sensitive to lighting, color, and architecture, and who has knowledge of techniques to achieve certain looks. For example, if you want an ominous feel to a cathedral, you need to know what light colors are more ominous than others, what direction of lighting (maybe bottom up, rather than from the top), what types of lights...many dim point lights? or single directional lights?, if light scattering through a medium like fog would look good, etc etc. And also keeping in mind functional aspects like, can the player still see items or things he needs to do, even with all of this specific lighting. Another example might be that while lighting and materials might behave naturally, sometimes they still behave in undesireable ways. Suppose the angle of the sun reflected off of a reflective surface right into the player's face right while he was at a specific location where he needed to do something. If you can't move the surface, can you shift the light? Will that effect the scene much? Maybe now that you shifted the light, the rays of light that were going through a tree branch beautifully are not there any more.

wmf 14y ago
Getting back to UE4, if its lights behave more like real-world lights it may allow game artists to translate real-world lighting knowledge into games or let them spend less time working around kinks in the engine.
- daenz 14y ago
  Definitely true. We draw our experience on lights from the real world, so the closer an engine is to the real world, the faster the artists can prototype and test lighting setups.
  - jsprinkles 14y ago
    There's a lot of untapped creativity from the masters of film and television production in gaming, because the skills don't map well. I'm definitely keen to see what happens to that situation once the engines get closer to simulating the real world. The possibilities are endless, since suddenly a great lighting director's skill set is much more valuable to a team working on a AAA title. That isn't to say this doesn't happen now, just that it's only going to get better.
  - MartinCron 14y ago
    As a still photographer who sometimes works with multiple off-camera lights (strobist-style) I would love to be able to experiment in software to see a very close approximation of how a setup would look.
    - daenz 14y ago
      I'm not aware of any photographer-centric photorealistic 3d apps, but that sounds like a potential niche business! Might be worth exploring.
      - ISeemToBeAVerb 14y ago
        I have a plugin for Cinema 4D called "HDRI Studio Kit" that is basically a set of predefined studio lights and lighting setups. Makes it very simple to light objects using traditional photographic methods. You have various tent setups, soft-boxes, umbrella lights, etc...

anigbrowl 14y ago

Natural light is boring, and often distracting. As a very simple example, I live in an old house and have windows broken into small square panels. For a scene where someone is looking through that window I would put a light outside to make a shadow on their face for dramatic effect, even if the sun was not really coming from that direction or if it was raining (which usually softens shadows). But if I was showing the same person looking back into the room, then the shadow on their back would be a distraction from what was inside the room, so I would soften the lighting or put a screen to limit the natural light, and fill in the darker areas of the room with a soft light. Look at old film noir movies on TV, they have very exaggerated lighting for dramatic effect.Often you are reducing light to remove information from the scene, so that the viewer can focus on the dramatic subject.

TrevorJ 14y ago
Even when they do shoot outdoors during the day in films, you have scrims, bounce cards, 12k lights and all manner of things to control the light. Also, DP's try to shoot exteriors during golden hour a few hours after sunrise or before sunset, to get softer and warmer light. If you have to shoot mid day, you try to either use a scrim or you pray for clouds to soften the harsh light.