4 ms·

Car Crash Deaths Involving Cannabis on the Rise

30 points by rufus_foreman 2y ago

sethammons 2y ago
> Between 2000 and 2018, the percentage of car crash deaths in the United States involving cannabis have doubled I assume a higher percent of people have access to and are using cannabis during over same time period, lowering the scale of the effect
- shadowgovt 2y ago
  We'd have to have numbers on how many drivers are operating their vehicles with cannabis in their system successfully every day to make a guess at whether it impairs driving enough to regulate it. Otherwise it's just correlation.
the-dude 2y ago
The title implies cannabis involvement in the crashes, but this is not at all clear, from TFA: Most cannabis tests do not distinguish between any past use and acute intoxication, and implementing standardized thresholds is challenging due to tolerance from regular use.
- josefresco 2y ago
  Also... "“Our testing methods for cannabis remain suboptimal and individuals can test positive for cannabis weeks after they have consumed it,” says study lead author Marlene Lira, an epidemiologist at BMC."
- vollmond 2y ago
  So as cannabis use becomes more legal, more people who have crashes have used cannabis in the past. What an awful title.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
bluedino 2y ago
Ever since it became legal here it's so common to have the stench coming from the car in front of you.
- CapcomGo 2y ago
  Not a chance this has ever happened to you.
  - bluedino 2y ago
    I've never been driving behind a car where the occupants are smoking?
  - Suppafly 2y ago
    I live in a legal state, you can definitely smell it coming from cars around you in traffic and when you park next to cars in parking lots. I'm pro-legalization, but it does sorta suck how often you have to smell it.
CSactuary 2y ago
Not good. I was a proponent for cannabis legalization several years ago.. but seeing it in action, not so sure anymore. And I don’t even live in a state where it’s legal. But seems like half the work force is stoned now. Doesn’t bother me if you want to get high at home. But shouldn’t be high in public if it’s going to inconvenience others or put others at risk.
- quesera 2y ago
  > But shouldn’t be high in public if it’s going to inconvenience others or put others at risk. Laws vary, but public intoxication is usually a misdemeanor. Driving while intoxicated can be a felony. Working while intoxicated can be a fireable offense. We have existing frameworks to deal with these cases. Babies and small children are sometimes sources of inconvenience in public. As are people who walk slowly. And tourists. And photographers. And dogs. And (especially) the people who think it is reasonable to push their cart down the middle of the aisle and leave it there while they decide which of "fifty kinds of breakfast cereals, with different names, whose ingredients all read exactly the same", they will choose to ensicken their children with. The convenience objection sounds like a slight incremental discomfort to me. I get it though. I am pro-legalization also. I believe it's proper and correct for government to have no role in the freely-chosen personal and private activities of competent adults. But I don't want to deal with people in public being any stupider (more graciously, "less conscientious and aware") than they are already. That said, I'd much rather deal with a hundred people high on cannabis, lsd, mdma, and/or psilocybin, than a dozen people who are noticeably drunk on alcohol. I'm hoping for social preference to shift to newly-legalized intoxicants, which are better for everyone in all respects, than the status quo. And that these early years are just a period of adjustment and recalibration.
  - CSactuary 2y ago
    Yes, children can sometimes be an inconvenience, but sort of a necessary part of our existence. Tourism brings in money. Dogs are limited in where they may go. Getting high is literally just to get a buzz. So pretty self indulgent. Agree the laws on the books should help protect but unfortunately they are not consistently enforced. Cannabis and other drugs can impair from a single dose. One quick edible before going to your shift. Whereas it’s difficult to slug a 6 pack or chug a bunch of liquor. So people pop an edible before going to work and don’t think anyone can tell they’re high, but next thing you know there’s a line wrapped around the block because they’re doing everything at the speed of molasses. There’s just no fear anymore and limited social taboo. I tend to lean more libertarian but I just don’t think we’re on a good trajectory with this one.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
oldpersonintx 2y ago
[dead]
htek 2y ago
Testing for marijuana does not provide accurate data with respect to when it was consumed. It could have been a factor in the crash, or it could have been consumed days to weeks in the past, as the study author states: “Our testing methods for cannabis remain suboptimal and individuals can test positive for cannabis weeks after they have consumed it.”
shadowgovt 2y ago
Without additional signal, this news basically boils down to "An illegal thing is made legal. People in car accidents are found to have used the legal thing." Not implying that cannabis doesn't impair one's ability to operate a motor vehicle, but there isn't nearly enough data in this story to do anything scientifically useful with that notion. Are we seeing a spike in traffic fatalities? Are roads getting less safe? Because without some reason to chase the numbers, we're just left with "people in car accidents did legal things before getting in those accidents." Like... Did you know accidents involving cellphones went up after the invention of the cellphone? And good thing we finally ended the reign of terror that is accidents involving tape-deck / audio jack converters thanks to Bluetooth... (ETA): The trend in accidents over the past decade has been mostly flat, with a bit of a spike as of late. Hard to disambiguate the cause of that spike between other causes and "After COVID we dumped a lot of people back onto the road who hadn't been driving for a year or two." https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/yearly-snapshot https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/yearl...
hayertjez 2y ago
Meanwhile cars are allowed to get bigger, heavier and thus more dangerous (SUV and Pickup trucks). See https://youtu.be/jN7mSXMruEo?si=GvZy7BC7AqwsFmUW https://youtu.be/jN7mSXMruEo?si=GvZy7BC7AqwsFmUW Not as an excuse for a driver to take seat after drinking too much alcohol or taking cannabis. I find it a rearguard action by concentrating too much on the driver and not on the weapon (car) itself. In my opinion a more difficult but more worthwhile is to make infrastructure more safe in general.
xnx 2y ago
Hard to know what level of causality there is for cannabis and car crashes. Smartphones on the other hand are known to distract our eyes, hands, and attention. Would love to see more automated/camera enforcement of cell phone use while driving. If it were a finable and enforced offense, my city could make millions from any given intersection over the course of a week.

30 points by rufus_foreman 2y ago

> Between 2000 and 2018, the percentage of car crash deaths in the United States involving cannabis have doubled I assume a higher percent of people have access to and are using cannabis during over same time period, lowering the scale of the effect

shadowgovt 2y ago
We'd have to have numbers on how many drivers are operating their vehicles with cannabis in their system successfully every day to make a guess at whether it impairs driving enough to regulate it. Otherwise it's just correlation.

the-dude 2y ago

The title implies cannabis involvement in the crashes, but this is not at all clear, from TFA: Most cannabis tests do not distinguish between any past use and acute intoxication, and implementing standardized thresholds is challenging due to tolerance from regular use.

josefresco 2y ago
Also... "“Our testing methods for cannabis remain suboptimal and individuals can test positive for cannabis weeks after they have consumed it,” says study lead author Marlene Lira, an epidemiologist at BMC."
vollmond 2y ago
So as cannabis use becomes more legal, more people who have crashes have used cannabis in the past. What an awful title.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

bluedino 2y ago

Ever since it became legal here it's so common to have the stench coming from the car in front of you.

CapcomGo 2y ago
Not a chance this has ever happened to you.
- bluedino 2y ago
  I've never been driving behind a car where the occupants are smoking?
- Suppafly 2y ago
  I live in a legal state, you can definitely smell it coming from cars around you in traffic and when you park next to cars in parking lots. I'm pro-legalization, but it does sorta suck how often you have to smell it.

CSactuary 2y ago

Not good. I was a proponent for cannabis legalization several years ago.. but seeing it in action, not so sure anymore. And I don’t even live in a state where it’s legal. But seems like half the work force is stoned now. Doesn’t bother me if you want to get high at home. But shouldn’t be high in public if it’s going to inconvenience others or put others at risk.

quesera 2y ago
> But shouldn’t be high in public if it’s going to inconvenience others or put others at risk. Laws vary, but public intoxication is usually a misdemeanor. Driving while intoxicated can be a felony. Working while intoxicated can be a fireable offense. We have existing frameworks to deal with these cases. Babies and small children are sometimes sources of inconvenience in public. As are people who walk slowly. And tourists. And photographers. And dogs. And (especially) the people who think it is reasonable to push their cart down the middle of the aisle and leave it there while they decide which of "fifty kinds of breakfast cereals, with different names, whose ingredients all read exactly the same", they will choose to ensicken their children with. The convenience objection sounds like a slight incremental discomfort to me. I get it though. I am pro-legalization also. I believe it's proper and correct for government to have no role in the freely-chosen personal and private activities of competent adults. But I don't want to deal with people in public being any stupider (more graciously, "less conscientious and aware") than they are already. That said, I'd much rather deal with a hundred people high on cannabis, lsd, mdma, and/or psilocybin, than a dozen people who are noticeably drunk on alcohol. I'm hoping for social preference to shift to newly-legalized intoxicants, which are better for everyone in all respects, than the status quo. And that these early years are just a period of adjustment and recalibration.
- CSactuary 2y ago
  Yes, children can sometimes be an inconvenience, but sort of a necessary part of our existence. Tourism brings in money. Dogs are limited in where they may go. Getting high is literally just to get a buzz. So pretty self indulgent. Agree the laws on the books should help protect but unfortunately they are not consistently enforced. Cannabis and other drugs can impair from a single dose. One quick edible before going to your shift. Whereas it’s difficult to slug a 6 pack or chug a bunch of liquor. So people pop an edible before going to work and don’t think anyone can tell they’re high, but next thing you know there’s a line wrapped around the block because they’re doing everything at the speed of molasses. There’s just no fear anymore and limited social taboo. I tend to lean more libertarian but I just don’t think we’re on a good trajectory with this one.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

oldpersonintx 2y ago

[dead]

htek 2y ago

Testing for marijuana does not provide accurate data with respect to when it was consumed. It could have been a factor in the crash, or it could have been consumed days to weeks in the past, as the study author states: “Our testing methods for cannabis remain suboptimal and individuals can test positive for cannabis weeks after they have consumed it.”

shadowgovt 2y ago

Without additional signal, this news basically boils down to "An illegal thing is made legal. People in car accidents are found to have used the legal thing." Not implying that cannabis doesn't impair one's ability to operate a motor vehicle, but there isn't nearly enough data in this story to do anything scientifically useful with that notion. Are we seeing a spike in traffic fatalities? Are roads getting less safe? Because without some reason to chase the numbers, we're just left with "people in car accidents did legal things before getting in those accidents." Like... Did you know accidents involving cellphones went up after the invention of the cellphone? And good thing we finally ended the reign of terror that is accidents involving tape-deck / audio jack converters thanks to Bluetooth... (ETA): The trend in accidents over the past decade has been mostly flat, with a bit of a spike as of late. Hard to disambiguate the cause of that spike between other causes and "After COVID we dumped a lot of people back onto the road who hadn't been driving for a year or two." https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/yearly-snapshot https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/yearl...

hayertjez 2y ago

Meanwhile cars are allowed to get bigger, heavier and thus more dangerous (SUV and Pickup trucks). See https://youtu.be/jN7mSXMruEo?si=GvZy7BC7AqwsFmUW https://youtu.be/jN7mSXMruEo?si=GvZy7BC7AqwsFmUW Not as an excuse for a driver to take seat after drinking too much alcohol or taking cannabis. I find it a rearguard action by concentrating too much on the driver and not on the weapon (car) itself. In my opinion a more difficult but more worthwhile is to make infrastructure more safe in general.

xnx 2y ago

Hard to know what level of causality there is for cannabis and car crashes. Smartphones on the other hand are known to distract our eyes, hands, and attention. Would love to see more automated/camera enforcement of cell phone use while driving. If it were a finable and enforced offense, my city could make millions from any given intersection over the course of a week.