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> You don't need laws or campaigns, it happens naturally, due to the increased sexual selection availability Again, do you have any examples of this actually h

by sofixa 2y ago

> You don't need laws or campaigns, it happens naturally, due to the increased sexual selection availability Again, do you have any examples of this actually happening in the real world? It naturally happens that men become more desirable because there's less of them, but is there any actual case where it became widespread for men to get multiple different women pregnant to repopulate the country? Not to mention, even if it did happen (and again, nobody has come up with any examples in the tens of times I've asked this question, and Google hasn't been helpful either), unless there was a concentrated government policy to that effect, you'd be mistaking correlation with causation - less men than women, so men are more desirable and can pull off multiple kids from multiple women doesn't mean that's the reasoning why only men were drafted.

coldtea 2y ago
>Again, do you have any examples of this actually happening in the real world? You were given examples already: "Using unique archival data, the results indicate that male scarcity led to lower rates of marriage and fertility, higher nonmarital births, and reduced bargaining power within marriage for women most affected by war deaths" You can read about similar post-war periods with similar problems and outcomes in history books too. >unless there was a concentrated government policy to that effect you'd be mistaking correlation with causation - less men than women, so men are more desirable and can pull off multiple kids from multiple women doesn't mean that's the reasoning why only men were drafted. Women were needed to raise the present kids, and to be able to raise future kids. People didn't need to have this spelt out in law, or to have subsidies for sex with more different partners post war. Even so, the very link you continue to ignore mentions such legal changes too in the case of post-WWII USSR: "The impact of sex ratio imbalance on marriage and family persisted for years after the war's end and was likely magnified by (...wait for it...) policies that promoted nonmarital births"
- sofixa 2y ago
  > You were given examples already: "Using unique archival data, the results indicate that male scarcity led to lower rates of marriage and fertility, higher nonmarital births, and reduced bargaining power within marriage for women most affected by war deaths" The fertility rate (amount of kids per woman) dropped, so no. > policies that promoted nonmarital births Nonmarital births does not mean that men were getting multiple different women pregnant at the same time.
  - coldtea 2y ago
    >The fertility rate (amount of kids per woman) dropped, so no. Of course it did, since tens of millions men still died and tons were left with severe impairements. It's not about it remaining stable or raising after the most horrible war casualties in history it's about it not dropping as much. It's about it being elevated to where it would be if what we describe wasn't the case. "The magnitude of the effect on completed fertility is relatively small in light of the scale of male losses, perhaps due to the pronatalist policy that promoted out of wedlock births" >Nonmarital births does not mean that men were getting multiple different women pregnant at the same time. Who said anything about "same time"? Men had more choice and thus more affairs/women and reduced being tied to marriage. This translates to more women pregnant by fewer men over the previous period - doesn't mean men got 2-3 women pregnant at a time. In any case, I think this is more of a "hands on the ears" mode, than a discussion mode, so I'll stop here.

by sofixa 2y ago

coldtea 2y ago

>Again, do you have any examples of this actually happening in the real world? You were given examples already: "Using unique archival data, the results indicate that male scarcity led to lower rates of marriage and fertility, higher nonmarital births, and reduced bargaining power within marriage for women most affected by war deaths" You can read about similar post-war periods with similar problems and outcomes in history books too. >unless there was a concentrated government policy to that effect you'd be mistaking correlation with causation - less men than women, so men are more desirable and can pull off multiple kids from multiple women doesn't mean that's the reasoning why only men were drafted. Women were needed to raise the present kids, and to be able to raise future kids. People didn't need to have this spelt out in law, or to have subsidies for sex with more different partners post war. Even so, the very link you continue to ignore mentions such legal changes too in the case of post-WWII USSR: "The impact of sex ratio imbalance on marriage and family persisted for years after the war's end and was likely magnified by (...wait for it...) policies that promoted nonmarital births"

sofixa 2y ago
> You were given examples already: "Using unique archival data, the results indicate that male scarcity led to lower rates of marriage and fertility, higher nonmarital births, and reduced bargaining power within marriage for women most affected by war deaths" The fertility rate (amount of kids per woman) dropped, so no. > policies that promoted nonmarital births Nonmarital births does not mean that men were getting multiple different women pregnant at the same time.
- coldtea 2y ago
  >The fertility rate (amount of kids per woman) dropped, so no. Of course it did, since tens of millions men still died and tons were left with severe impairements. It's not about it remaining stable or raising after the most horrible war casualties in history it's about it not dropping as much. It's about it being elevated to where it would be if what we describe wasn't the case. "The magnitude of the effect on completed fertility is relatively small in light of the scale of male losses, perhaps due to the pronatalist policy that promoted out of wedlock births" >Nonmarital births does not mean that men were getting multiple different women pregnant at the same time. Who said anything about "same time"? Men had more choice and thus more affairs/women and reduced being tied to marriage. This translates to more women pregnant by fewer men over the previous period - doesn't mean men got 2-3 women pregnant at a time. In any case, I think this is more of a "hands on the ears" mode, than a discussion mode, so I'll stop here.