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"Does me as a Hindu having an opinion about my faith offend you and strike you as extremist?" No. I believe, you may believe whatever you want. But I also bel

by lukan 2y ago

"Does me as a Hindu having an opinion about my faith offend you and strike you as extremist?" No. I believe, you may believe whatever you want. But I also believe, that when you define India as a Hindu Nation only, you do exclude all the other faiths and non faiths. That is my definition of extremism. In this case, going in the direction of a theocracy. "I want Muslims (and Christians and Buddhists and everyone)to have the freedom to practice their faith. I want the same for Hindus" Because when you want India defined as a Hindu state, like you stated elsewhere many times, you do not want equal terms for all religions, you want a privileged position for Hinduism, integrated into the state. I do understand, that you want to live in a Hindu state - the laws shaped by your believe. But why must it be as big as whole India? Because many Indians do not believe in Hinduism - and they will eventually fight, if they have to submit to laws, they do not agree with. Can't there be a compromise, where the big state is somewhat neutral, but some local state/districts are more Hindu and some others maybe more Muslim or whatever? I think this would be more peaceful for everyone. Live and let live. Otherwise a big percentage of the population will never really identify with the Nation. And not fight for it, but against. You see some of the results in this thread here. edit: This thread started with: "Hinduism is no doubt a important part of india, but maybe not the only one?" to which you replied with: "India is Hindu." Which seems at odds with freedom and equality for all religions.

NoRagrets 2y ago
Hindus might like a nation of their own when they are a billion in strength and India was where Hinduism was born and grew. Hindus are a majority in India. 80% are Hindus and 94% of the world’s Hindus reside in India. There is thousands of years of history of Hinduism in India. It was the colonial Brits who created a ‘secular’ India after they orchestrated the partitions of Pakistan and Bangladesh (as Muslim countries). As a democracy, the nation has the right to choose a Hindu Nation/Rashtra over secularism. This is true for every nation in the world. As the only non abrahamic polytheist nation in the world, there seems to be some unfair expectations of India and what Indians want. Why? The Abrahamic nations have split the whole rest of the world amongst them. Hindus have only one nation. Why can’t their have their spiritual land as a Hindu nation if it’s democratically desired and achieved? It is the spiritual land for over a billion Hindus(whose rights and places of worship are being trampled upon in the name of secularism while other religions are not required to follow the law of the land) Israel is a Jewish nation. There are many Christian and Muslim nations. Why wouldn’t Hindus want a country where they have civilizational roots to be a Hindu Nation? Are all the countries of the world ‘secular’? Why do we expect India to be constitutionally secular? There are only 5 countries that have secular baked into their constitution, India, USA, France(Laïcité), Australia and Japan. India is only secular by name. Currently, there is the nation’s law and then there is the Shariat Law for Muslims. These laws especially impact women as it relates to marriage, divorce, inheritance, succession etc. the Christian and Hindu Personal Law are not at odds with the constitutional law. To this end, BJP, the current ruling party wants a Uniform Civil Code where the law applies equally for every citizen. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_personal_law https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_personal_law 3.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Civil_Code https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Civil_Code It would nullify Shariat Law. It is a mockery of the word ‘secular’ when different laws and rights are allotted to different religions. It is against democratic principles. And fundamentally wrong. Triple Talaq: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_talaq_in_India https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_talaq_in_India Nikah Halala: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikah_halala https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikah_halala
- NoRagrets 2y ago
  To understand the mess the British left behind, you must know Anglo Hindu (and Anglo Muslim) Law and its development. More of it here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Anglo-Hindu_law https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Anglo-Hindu_law India gained its independence only in 1947. It has not even been a hundred years and the country is still grappling with how to do damage control over the mess left behind by the colonial British.
  - lukan 2y ago
    Look, I am not in favor of (british) colonialism and the problems it created. I am also not in favor of what Hungary is doing, the only country in europe(apart from Vatican), that is activly pushing christianity as a state dogma. We europeans mostly left the abrahamtic religions as state religion behind us and most want to get rid, of what is left. So I am also not happy for Hindu Nationalists pushing for India to implement Hinduism as a state dogma. Because that is the same principle to me: a strong power dictates life for everyone else below them. That always means ignoring the needs of minorities. And the way you consistently leave out all the non Hindu indians in your lectures about Indias great history, indicates that this will be their fate in a Hindu India. Ignored and forgotten and supressed. The same fate you lament for Hinduism. There you care, but you don't care, when it affects others.
    - NoRagrets 2y ago
      Sincere query: Why are you ‘not happy for Hindu Nationalists pushing for India to implement Hinduism as a state dogma’? It’s not your religion. It doesn’t affect you. India is a democracy. It would involve an election. Should there be foreign interference in a democratic nation’s elections and how the citizenry want to run their country ? It’s very strange. Why is everyone bothered about India? Saudi Arabia is a Muslim country. There are over 50 countries in the world that are Muslim and follow Muslim law. What are your thoughts on that? India was invaded and then colonized by outsiders. First with guns and then trade and then by religious conversions. This is history. Many Indians don’t like that. It has barely been 80 years since India was released from the clutches of 250 years of colonial rule. India has the right to define herself and find her own identity using the chosen democratic process. I find it very strange that so many non Hindus of the world are so upset about a country of one billion Hindus wanting the remains of their splintered partitioned and battered country to remain Hindu in identity. One billion Hindus. Thousands of years of civilizational history and people who embraced new abrahamic faith in the past thousand years after giving up their pagan roots want India to give up her roots.. for what? India has resisted the cultural and civilizational and religious assaults and that is only due to lthe tenacity of the unified Hindu identity and faith. It won’t be weakened. Our ancestors did not fight and resist invasions and assault for us to give up on our civilisational inheritance and Hindus have a duty to honor those sacrifices and generational trauma by keeping Hinduism and Hindu homeland and Hindu identity intact for our future generations. Many gave up and embraced new faiths. Our ancestors did not. Hindus exist today because our ancestors thought Hindu identity was worth protecting. And we will. For our descendants.

by lukan 2y ago

NoRagrets 2y ago

Hindus might like a nation of their own when they are a billion in strength and India was where Hinduism was born and grew. Hindus are a majority in India. 80% are Hindus and 94% of the world’s Hindus reside in India. There is thousands of years of history of Hinduism in India. It was the colonial Brits who created a ‘secular’ India after they orchestrated the partitions of Pakistan and Bangladesh (as Muslim countries). As a democracy, the nation has the right to choose a Hindu Nation/Rashtra over secularism. This is true for every nation in the world. As the only non abrahamic polytheist nation in the world, there seems to be some unfair expectations of India and what Indians want. Why? The Abrahamic nations have split the whole rest of the world amongst them. Hindus have only one nation. Why can’t their have their spiritual land as a Hindu nation if it’s democratically desired and achieved? It is the spiritual land for over a billion Hindus(whose rights and places of worship are being trampled upon in the name of secularism while other religions are not required to follow the law of the land) Israel is a Jewish nation. There are many Christian and Muslim nations. Why wouldn’t Hindus want a country where they have civilizational roots to be a Hindu Nation? Are all the countries of the world ‘secular’? Why do we expect India to be constitutionally secular? There are only 5 countries that have secular baked into their constitution, India, USA, France(Laïcité), Australia and Japan. India is only secular by name. Currently, there is the nation’s law and then there is the Shariat Law for Muslims. These laws especially impact women as it relates to marriage, divorce, inheritance, succession etc. the Christian and Hindu Personal Law are not at odds with the constitutional law. To this end, BJP, the current ruling party wants a Uniform Civil Code where the law applies equally for every citizen. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_personal_law https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_personal_law 3.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Civil_Code https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Civil_Code It would nullify Shariat Law. It is a mockery of the word ‘secular’ when different laws and rights are allotted to different religions. It is against democratic principles. And fundamentally wrong. Triple Talaq: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_talaq_in_India https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_talaq_in_India Nikah Halala: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikah_halala https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikah_halala

NoRagrets 2y ago
To understand the mess the British left behind, you must know Anglo Hindu (and Anglo Muslim) Law and its development. More of it here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Anglo-Hindu_law https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Anglo-Hindu_law India gained its independence only in 1947. It has not even been a hundred years and the country is still grappling with how to do damage control over the mess left behind by the colonial British.
- lukan 2y ago
  Look, I am not in favor of (british) colonialism and the problems it created. I am also not in favor of what Hungary is doing, the only country in europe(apart from Vatican), that is activly pushing christianity as a state dogma. We europeans mostly left the abrahamtic religions as state religion behind us and most want to get rid, of what is left. So I am also not happy for Hindu Nationalists pushing for India to implement Hinduism as a state dogma. Because that is the same principle to me: a strong power dictates life for everyone else below them. That always means ignoring the needs of minorities. And the way you consistently leave out all the non Hindu indians in your lectures about Indias great history, indicates that this will be their fate in a Hindu India. Ignored and forgotten and supressed. The same fate you lament for Hinduism. There you care, but you don't care, when it affects others.
  - NoRagrets 2y ago
    Sincere query: Why are you ‘not happy for Hindu Nationalists pushing for India to implement Hinduism as a state dogma’? It’s not your religion. It doesn’t affect you. India is a democracy. It would involve an election. Should there be foreign interference in a democratic nation’s elections and how the citizenry want to run their country ? It’s very strange. Why is everyone bothered about India? Saudi Arabia is a Muslim country. There are over 50 countries in the world that are Muslim and follow Muslim law. What are your thoughts on that? India was invaded and then colonized by outsiders. First with guns and then trade and then by religious conversions. This is history. Many Indians don’t like that. It has barely been 80 years since India was released from the clutches of 250 years of colonial rule. India has the right to define herself and find her own identity using the chosen democratic process. I find it very strange that so many non Hindus of the world are so upset about a country of one billion Hindus wanting the remains of their splintered partitioned and battered country to remain Hindu in identity. One billion Hindus. Thousands of years of civilizational history and people who embraced new abrahamic faith in the past thousand years after giving up their pagan roots want India to give up her roots.. for what? India has resisted the cultural and civilizational and religious assaults and that is only due to lthe tenacity of the unified Hindu identity and faith. It won’t be weakened. Our ancestors did not fight and resist invasions and assault for us to give up on our civilisational inheritance and Hindus have a duty to honor those sacrifices and generational trauma by keeping Hinduism and Hindu homeland and Hindu identity intact for our future generations. Many gave up and embraced new faiths. Our ancestors did not. Hindus exist today because our ancestors thought Hindu identity was worth protecting. And we will. For our descendants.