4 ms·

Thanks for the link. I wouldn't want to rigorously teach Calculus using *R unless the relevant proofs are reasonably accessible (which, given that we're talkin

Thanks for the link. I wouldn't want to rigorously teach Calculus using *R unless the relevant proofs are reasonably accessible (which, given that we're talking Number Theory, seems like a remote possibility), but it's wonderful how much simpler they make the arguments if you work with them.

yummyfajitas 14y ago
The relevant proofs are easily accessible, probably more so than the limit based proofs of regular calculus. The only thing that isn't easily accessible is the proof of transference, namely that what's true for star-R (don't know how to make asterisks format nicely) is also true for R.
- podperson 14y ago
  I mean the equivalence / transference proofs. Otherwise you're pulling a theorem out of the air and telling students to just accept it. And by "accessible" I mean easy enough to understand that they don't become a huge distraction (or worse).
  - aaronasterling 14y ago
    If one starts with star-R to begin with, then why does one need the transference theorems?
  - podperson 14y ago
    You're then discussing math in terms of a set whose properties don't obviously match anything the student has dealt with. It needs to be established, one way or another, that adding infinitesimals etc. is not introducing new behavior.
    - dllthomas 14y ago
      I don't see why that can't just be stated. Students need somewhere to start from, and there's plenty already that we say "trust us for now, we'll prove it later" - and it's not like the reals actually match anything the student has dealt with, at the corner cases, either...
  - yummyfajitas 14y ago
    No, it means you are starting with a different (but equivalent) set of axioms. Our use of R rather than star-R is merely a quirk of history - we managed to justify R to ourselves first, hence it's the "standard".
    - podperson 14y ago
      You're working with strictly _more_ axioms, and the extra axioms don't seem justified unless you use the equivalence proof to show you haven't added undesired behavior. (If you look at the other axioms, the hardest one to justify is the bounding axiom, and its necessity is reinforced by proof. Every other axiom fits in with the student's understanding of arithmetic.)
Dn_Ab 14y ago
This is a good book. I found it preferable to regular epsilon delta when I was in highschool. http://www.math.wisc.edu/~keisler/calc.html http://www.math.wisc.edu/~keisler/calc.html

yummyfajitas 14y ago

The relevant proofs are easily accessible, probably more so than the limit based proofs of regular calculus. The only thing that isn't easily accessible is the proof of transference, namely that what's true for star-R (don't know how to make asterisks format nicely) is also true for R.

podperson 14y ago
I mean the equivalence / transference proofs. Otherwise you're pulling a theorem out of the air and telling students to just accept it. And by "accessible" I mean easy enough to understand that they don't become a huge distraction (or worse).
- aaronasterling 14y ago
  If one starts with star-R to begin with, then why does one need the transference theorems?
- podperson 14y ago
  You're then discussing math in terms of a set whose properties don't obviously match anything the student has dealt with. It needs to be established, one way or another, that adding infinitesimals etc. is not introducing new behavior.
  - dllthomas 14y ago
    I don't see why that can't just be stated. Students need somewhere to start from, and there's plenty already that we say "trust us for now, we'll prove it later" - and it's not like the reals actually match anything the student has dealt with, at the corner cases, either...
- yummyfajitas 14y ago
  No, it means you are starting with a different (but equivalent) set of axioms. Our use of R rather than star-R is merely a quirk of history - we managed to justify R to ourselves first, hence it's the "standard".
  - podperson 14y ago
    You're working with strictly _more_ axioms, and the extra axioms don't seem justified unless you use the equivalence proof to show you haven't added undesired behavior. (If you look at the other axioms, the hardest one to justify is the bounding axiom, and its necessity is reinforced by proof. Every other axiom fits in with the student's understanding of arithmetic.)

Dn_Ab 14y ago

This is a good book. I found it preferable to regular epsilon delta when I was in highschool. http://www.math.wisc.edu/~keisler/calc.html http://www.math.wisc.edu/~keisler/calc.html