3 ms·

A president can still be impeached and removed, they may not "serve their debt to society" but the harm can be stopped by the states.

TylerE 2y ago
Impeachment is fundamentally broken.
talldayo 2y ago
> but the harm can be stopped by the states. If we refuse to recognize that harm under the current Rule of Law, then who is going to identify and prosecute "harm" besides politically motivated ideologues? It sounds like a surefire way to cement the separation of the Executive office from it's respective checks and balances.
tolmasky 2y ago
It seems like perhaps that power has been considerably weakened if the President is literally allowed to assassinate political rivals (as is mentioned in the dissent). You might vote not to impeach in fear, similar to jury intimidation. Hell, why even wait, what’s to prevent a President from going for it before the vote even happens? I find it hard to believe that this was meant to be a component of the impeachment process by the founders. To make it more exciting, I guess?
incogitomode 2y ago
Once they are impeached they would presumably be subject to criminal prosecution under the Impeachment Judgements Clause [1] which states: "but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law." I don't think this ruling is, on the surface, exactly what people are making it out to be. It certainly maintains a high bar for criminally prosecuting the president for something they do in office, but it is not allowing them to commit crimes with impunity. 1: https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/article-1/section-3/clause-7/#:~:text=Judgment%20in%20Cases%20of%20Impeachment,and%20Punishment%2C%20according%20to%20Law https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/article-1/section-3....
- Miner49er 2y ago
  > but it is not allowing them to commit crimes with impunity Well it kind of does, because the president has the power to stop impeachment from ever happening in the first place, if they're willing to command the military to.
jasonjayr 2y ago
With the speed at which the impeachment and removal can take, with this new interpretation, it seems significant and lasting damage take take place before anything could be done.

TylerE 2y ago

Impeachment is fundamentally broken.

talldayo 2y ago

> but the harm can be stopped by the states. If we refuse to recognize that harm under the current Rule of Law, then who is going to identify and prosecute "harm" besides politically motivated ideologues? It sounds like a surefire way to cement the separation of the Executive office from it's respective checks and balances.

tolmasky 2y ago

It seems like perhaps that power has been considerably weakened if the President is literally allowed to assassinate political rivals (as is mentioned in the dissent). You might vote not to impeach in fear, similar to jury intimidation. Hell, why even wait, what’s to prevent a President from going for it before the vote even happens? I find it hard to believe that this was meant to be a component of the impeachment process by the founders. To make it more exciting, I guess?

incogitomode 2y ago

Once they are impeached they would presumably be subject to criminal prosecution under the Impeachment Judgements Clause [1] which states: "but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law." I don't think this ruling is, on the surface, exactly what people are making it out to be. It certainly maintains a high bar for criminally prosecuting the president for something they do in office, but it is not allowing them to commit crimes with impunity. 1: https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/article-1/section-3/clause-7/#:~:text=Judgment%20in%20Cases%20of%20Impeachment,and%20Punishment%2C%20according%20to%20Law https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/article-1/section-3....

Miner49er 2y ago
> but it is not allowing them to commit crimes with impunity Well it kind of does, because the president has the power to stop impeachment from ever happening in the first place, if they're willing to command the military to.

jasonjayr 2y ago

With the speed at which the impeachment and removal can take, with this new interpretation, it seems significant and lasting damage take take place before anything could be done.