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One would think that after three decades of the windows metaphor and billions of man-hours writing such applications, writing GUI apps (for any platform) would

One would think that after three decades of the windows metaphor and billions of man-hours writing such applications, writing GUI apps (for any platform) would be a much more pleasant experience? One could imagine a framework that would absorb all this historical know-how and turn GUI app development into a zero marginal cost exercise (fast, functional, cheap and maybe even pleasant) but who would push for this and why? Maybe its a case of somebody not learning a lesson when their economic interest depends on not learning it?The overview of existing frameworks (including browser/webview based) suggests there is a sort of stagnating stalemate that feels sub-par but probably works just fine for those who have any leverage over the status-quo.

shortrounddev2 2y ago
There is a UI framework which is fast, functional, cheap, and (depending on your personality) pleasant: the web browser. HTML and CSS are go-to strategies not just because the web is the target platform for probably most if not almost all user interfacing software these days, but because HTML and CSS are very forgiving. Native UI frameworks are written by software engineers who demand type safety and XAML-like features which convert declarative syntax into imperative/object-oriented C#. The truth is that the vast majority of people who work on user interfaces are not the kinds of software engineers who enjoy this; HTML's model of creating arbitrary blobs of flexible dom nodes (and then using javascript to handle user interactions) is a lot more pleasant than getting compilation error after compilation error in XAML and having to google how the hell you display a set of items in a ListBox, only to have to filter through 4 or 5 different slight variations in the proper types between WinUI 3, WPF, UWP, and Maui. Native desktop software will never beat web browsers as long as you're forced into using the framework's model for structuring your data and code. 13 year olds learn HTML, CSS, and Javascript, that should be the target for usability with native UI frameworks
- openrisk 2y ago
  There is certainly a strong case for the web platform as an all-weather gui platform but on actual mobile and desktops of here and now it is not a no-brainer choice. Its document oriented nature fits some use cases better than others. Not to mention that with the near exclusive focus on (incompatible) javascript frameworks it is not exactly clear even what "html" means...
  - shortrounddev2 2y ago
    It seems to have become the no-brainer choice. Lots of mobile apps just load html views, and probably most desktop apps I see these days are just electron apps. You can reason about the best use case for HTML vs XAML vs Swift, but it seems that the speed of development time and the insane amount of community support out there has made the web the clear winner
    - skydhash 2y ago
      And the quality of software has gone downhill. HTML and CSS can be RAD, but they rely on millions of line of code in the browser engine while having subpar models for gui layouts and custom widgets. And building a native app is not that necessarily complex, it's just different.
      - shortrounddev2 2y ago
        The market prioritizes speed of development and cost of labor over runtime efficiency. Thus, until native app frameworks become easy and fast to develop for, we will continue to see everything turn into a web app

shortrounddev2 2y ago

There is a UI framework which is fast, functional, cheap, and (depending on your personality) pleasant: the web browser. HTML and CSS are go-to strategies not just because the web is the target platform for probably most if not almost all user interfacing software these days, but because HTML and CSS are very forgiving. Native UI frameworks are written by software engineers who demand type safety and XAML-like features which convert declarative syntax into imperative/object-oriented C#. The truth is that the vast majority of people who work on user interfaces are not the kinds of software engineers who enjoy this; HTML's model of creating arbitrary blobs of flexible dom nodes (and then using javascript to handle user interactions) is a lot more pleasant than getting compilation error after compilation error in XAML and having to google how the hell you display a set of items in a ListBox, only to have to filter through 4 or 5 different slight variations in the proper types between WinUI 3, WPF, UWP, and Maui. Native desktop software will never beat web browsers as long as you're forced into using the framework's model for structuring your data and code. 13 year olds learn HTML, CSS, and Javascript, that should be the target for usability with native UI frameworks

openrisk 2y ago
There is certainly a strong case for the web platform as an all-weather gui platform but on actual mobile and desktops of here and now it is not a no-brainer choice. Its document oriented nature fits some use cases better than others. Not to mention that with the near exclusive focus on (incompatible) javascript frameworks it is not exactly clear even what "html" means...
- shortrounddev2 2y ago
  It seems to have become the no-brainer choice. Lots of mobile apps just load html views, and probably most desktop apps I see these days are just electron apps. You can reason about the best use case for HTML vs XAML vs Swift, but it seems that the speed of development time and the insane amount of community support out there has made the web the clear winner
  - skydhash 2y ago
    And the quality of software has gone downhill. HTML and CSS can be RAD, but they rely on millions of line of code in the browser engine while having subpar models for gui layouts and custom widgets. And building a native app is not that necessarily complex, it's just different.
    - shortrounddev2 2y ago
      The market prioritizes speed of development and cost of labor over runtime efficiency. Thus, until native app frameworks become easy and fast to develop for, we will continue to see everything turn into a web app