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Thanks for the link! But, after reading the article, it seems that Trump's assumptions about bird killings were true? Apparently US windmills kill hundreds of

Thanks for the link! But, after reading the article, it seems that Trump's assumptions about bird killings were true? Apparently US windmills kill hundreds of thousands of birds every year. Among them hundreds of bald eagles. So over time that adds up to thousands.

fred_is_fred 2y ago
The falsehood here is that only wind mills kill animals. Coal mines, especially strip and mountain removal mines kill plenty of wildlife. Oil refineries also do, as do turbines in hydro dams. There's no energy source we have that is zero impact.
- robertlagrant 2y ago
  I don't think that was a stated claim, though?
  - fred_is_fred 2y ago
    I've always felt it implied when this is discussed, but you are correct that it was not mentioned above. Wind turbines kill birds so wind farms are bad. But the alternative isn't that we just don't use less electricity. And Wind farms may kill more bald eagles than coal mines, but as a resident of an area where coal was king, I would disagree if anyone said they are less harmful overall. There is a term for this type of comparison but it is escaping me right now.
    - p1necone 2y ago
      > There is a term for this type of comparison but it is escaping me right now. False Dichotomy?
    - robertlagrant 2y ago
      > Wind turbines kill birds so wind farms are bad I've read it more that "wind farms are not an unalloyed good", which counters something I do read. In generaly, this example seems pretty weak. Trump might've exaggerated the number of this particular type of bird being killed, but by far more he massively underplayed the numbers of the total number of birds being killed by them. Seems as though people are reading a lot into this, when you could more easily read the opposite into it: Trump downplaying damage to non-bald eagles! Why!?
      - ZeroGravitas 2y ago
        Yes, "wind farms are not an unalloyed good" seems like a great summary of the famously reasonable Donald Trump's take on Wind power, a subject he's kind of ambivalent about, but just wants a reasonable discussion of the facts with all context taken into account. And to immediately stop all offshore wind on day one of his potential next presidency. > They say the noise causes cancer. > If you have a windmill anywhere near your house, congratulations: Your house just went down 75% in value. > The windmills are driving the whales crazy > They shake, causing worms to come out of the soil. This is not a joke > windmills are causing whales to die in numbers never seen before. No one does anything about that. > If you love birds, you’d never want to walk under a windmill, because it’s a very sad, sad sight. It’s like a cemetery. We put a little statue for the poor birds. Threw in a little bonus Putin quote there, see if you can spot it.
megaman821 2y ago
Now you have this little factoid, then what? Should we ban everything that kills more birds than wind turbines? Context-free facts like this with clear implications are akin to lying.
- misja111 2y ago
  I have no idea what you are talking about. I'm a strong proponent of wind energy. But I also like birds. In my view of the world, we should search for solutions that let windmills kill less birds. The fact that it was Trump who brought this up doesn't make it less true. At least not in my world.

fred_is_fred 2y ago

The falsehood here is that only wind mills kill animals. Coal mines, especially strip and mountain removal mines kill plenty of wildlife. Oil refineries also do, as do turbines in hydro dams. There's no energy source we have that is zero impact.

robertlagrant 2y ago
I don't think that was a stated claim, though?
- fred_is_fred 2y ago
  I've always felt it implied when this is discussed, but you are correct that it was not mentioned above. Wind turbines kill birds so wind farms are bad. But the alternative isn't that we just don't use less electricity. And Wind farms may kill more bald eagles than coal mines, but as a resident of an area where coal was king, I would disagree if anyone said they are less harmful overall. There is a term for this type of comparison but it is escaping me right now.
  - p1necone 2y ago
    > There is a term for this type of comparison but it is escaping me right now. False Dichotomy?
  - robertlagrant 2y ago
    > Wind turbines kill birds so wind farms are bad I've read it more that "wind farms are not an unalloyed good", which counters something I do read. In generaly, this example seems pretty weak. Trump might've exaggerated the number of this particular type of bird being killed, but by far more he massively underplayed the numbers of the total number of birds being killed by them. Seems as though people are reading a lot into this, when you could more easily read the opposite into it: Trump downplaying damage to non-bald eagles! Why!?
    - ZeroGravitas 2y ago
      Yes, "wind farms are not an unalloyed good" seems like a great summary of the famously reasonable Donald Trump's take on Wind power, a subject he's kind of ambivalent about, but just wants a reasonable discussion of the facts with all context taken into account. And to immediately stop all offshore wind on day one of his potential next presidency. > They say the noise causes cancer. > If you have a windmill anywhere near your house, congratulations: Your house just went down 75% in value. > The windmills are driving the whales crazy > They shake, causing worms to come out of the soil. This is not a joke > windmills are causing whales to die in numbers never seen before. No one does anything about that. > If you love birds, you’d never want to walk under a windmill, because it’s a very sad, sad sight. It’s like a cemetery. We put a little statue for the poor birds. Threw in a little bonus Putin quote there, see if you can spot it.

megaman821 2y ago

Now you have this little factoid, then what? Should we ban everything that kills more birds than wind turbines? Context-free facts like this with clear implications are akin to lying.

misja111 2y ago
I have no idea what you are talking about. I'm a strong proponent of wind energy. But I also like birds. In my view of the world, we should search for solutions that let windmills kill less birds. The fact that it was Trump who brought this up doesn't make it less true. At least not in my world.