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edit: the assorted "you are misinterpreting them they just mean hello" responses are fundamentally missing the point of this comment. This is an implicit part o

by Rhapso 2y ago

edit: the assorted "you are misinterpreting them they just mean hello" responses are fundamentally missing the point of this comment. This is an implicit part of the "positivity culture" being discussed here. We have an entire ritual where you have to lie about things being fine. One thing i hate about our culture right now is the casual "How are you doing?" in service jobs. "Well, this week i found out i have testicular cancer and my doctor can't seem to get insurance approval for my Crohn's medication" are the things top in my mind. They are just being friendly in the superficial way. Having talked with folks, they really do mean it and they care, but they are also entirely unequipped for the real answers. The truth would offer me no satisfaction but the cruel catharsis of sharing my pain and they would only be hurt for it. Lying like this is really hard for me, these people don't deserve infantalized lies, so i have settled on "Horrible, but I'm having fun anyway!" with what is probably a manic smile, it reduces the damage to "mildly unsettled". Its ok to admit that your role in somebody's life is ephemeral and to act like it. "Good luck" or "I hope you have a good day" go so much further than the superficial simulation of intimacy and connection of asking how somebody's life is going while not expecting a real answer.

elteto 2y ago
It’s a cultural custom, most likely you are talking about North America. Other places might not have the same custom but will have others that may seem odd or fake to us. If I’m not having a particularly good time I just respond “I’m alright” and people take the cue. We shouldn’t sweat it too much.
- Rhapso 2y ago
  Its hard for me, maybe too much of the 'tism to be able to not take people literally. All of the people i have actually talked to about it don't actually feel like it is "just a custom", they aren't operating at that level of abstraction. They think they mean it, or at least lie about it afterwards. It seems fundamental dismissive to their intent to blatantly lie. I suspect i would have similar issues in other places as you describe them.
  - sportch 2y ago
    I'm from Midwest America and do this. I think what makes it weird is that it straddles the border between sincere and insincere. What I really mean is something like, "Hello fellow human, fare thee well!" <Tip of my hat> I actually do wish well for you as a fellow human being, but I also know that we aren't acquainted and so it would be inappropriate to be overly familiar. It's meant to strike that balance, but it's often taken to be all the way to one side of the spectrum or the other (fake or expecting an intimate, detailed response).
  - jprete 2y ago
    They do think they mean it, it's just that the meaning they give that phrase in that context is not the same meaning as in other contexts. Human speech isn't a programming language, it's a signaling mechanism, and all signals are modified by their context.
smeej 2y ago
I've started treating "How are you?" or "How's it going?" as a greeting in that context, and just responding with another greeting, like, "Hi! Lovely weather we're having!" or something similarly irrelevant and disengaged. People probably assume I didn't hear them or something, but not once has anyone reiterated the question.
- jprete 2y ago
  My personal path was first learning to lie about it - then later on understanding that nobody was lying about it per se, but they might appreciate the offer of concern without actually wanting to take advantage of it. Or they might just not want to confide in a casual acquaintance. I think the tricky and important part is actually navigating levels of intimacy, e.g. by phrasing questions in a way that doesn't ask to cross too many boundaries all at once. Conversation is like a dance, it goes better when everyone is giving and taking feedback on where it goes. In this sense "how are you" is just an invitation to dance. Don't be surprised when most people don't want to start dancing to a mournful tune!
Propelloni 2y ago
This sounds like you are using rules for one language game in the context of another. Let's say a cashier asks you "how are you?" then it is just a phrase. The purpose of the phrase is to acknowledge your existence and open the transaction. That's one kind of language game. You are not lying when you say "fine" here, you are playing the game. If your doctor asks you "how are you?" it's another language game with different expectations. If your mum asks you "how are you?" it is yet another language game with a different context and so on. I guess, this is just a roundabout way of saying the meaning of words, phrases, sentences change by context, even if they seem 100% identical, and the context determines a great deal what is an acceptable, ie. understandable, answer here. Get context savvy and save yourself and the others confusion and hurt.
- mindslight 2y ago
  Except that when you're dealing with grief or another type of extreme stress, that whole sense of light-hearted context dependent word play goes out the window. The patterned responses are no longer appropriate, and falling back on literal interpretation is the only thing you have in you. GP, I feel you. Personally I often just said/say "okay" or "alright", which decidedly means not okay in the cultural context, but I don't particularly care about ruffling feathers.
gloryjulio 2y ago
Its meaning is just hello if that's the translation you are looking for
mikegreenberg 2y ago
I've felt this to the point that I attempt to preempt the fake concern with my own rhetorical "Hope everything is going well for you." I'd like to think this alleviates the other party from feeling like they have to share anything they aren't comfortable with but allows them room to respond if they choose.
- Rhapso 2y ago
  This is a much better way of going about it.

by Rhapso 2y ago

elteto 2y ago

It’s a cultural custom, most likely you are talking about North America. Other places might not have the same custom but will have others that may seem odd or fake to us. If I’m not having a particularly good time I just respond “I’m alright” and people take the cue. We shouldn’t sweat it too much.

Rhapso 2y ago
Its hard for me, maybe too much of the 'tism to be able to not take people literally. All of the people i have actually talked to about it don't actually feel like it is "just a custom", they aren't operating at that level of abstraction. They think they mean it, or at least lie about it afterwards. It seems fundamental dismissive to their intent to blatantly lie. I suspect i would have similar issues in other places as you describe them.
- sportch 2y ago
  I'm from Midwest America and do this. I think what makes it weird is that it straddles the border between sincere and insincere. What I really mean is something like, "Hello fellow human, fare thee well!" <Tip of my hat> I actually do wish well for you as a fellow human being, but I also know that we aren't acquainted and so it would be inappropriate to be overly familiar. It's meant to strike that balance, but it's often taken to be all the way to one side of the spectrum or the other (fake or expecting an intimate, detailed response).
- jprete 2y ago
  They do think they mean it, it's just that the meaning they give that phrase in that context is not the same meaning as in other contexts. Human speech isn't a programming language, it's a signaling mechanism, and all signals are modified by their context.

smeej 2y ago

I've started treating "How are you?" or "How's it going?" as a greeting in that context, and just responding with another greeting, like, "Hi! Lovely weather we're having!" or something similarly irrelevant and disengaged. People probably assume I didn't hear them or something, but not once has anyone reiterated the question.

jprete 2y ago
My personal path was first learning to lie about it - then later on understanding that nobody was lying about it per se, but they might appreciate the offer of concern without actually wanting to take advantage of it. Or they might just not want to confide in a casual acquaintance. I think the tricky and important part is actually navigating levels of intimacy, e.g. by phrasing questions in a way that doesn't ask to cross too many boundaries all at once. Conversation is like a dance, it goes better when everyone is giving and taking feedback on where it goes. In this sense "how are you" is just an invitation to dance. Don't be surprised when most people don't want to start dancing to a mournful tune!

Propelloni 2y ago

This sounds like you are using rules for one language game in the context of another. Let's say a cashier asks you "how are you?" then it is just a phrase. The purpose of the phrase is to acknowledge your existence and open the transaction. That's one kind of language game. You are not lying when you say "fine" here, you are playing the game. If your doctor asks you "how are you?" it's another language game with different expectations. If your mum asks you "how are you?" it is yet another language game with a different context and so on. I guess, this is just a roundabout way of saying the meaning of words, phrases, sentences change by context, even if they seem 100% identical, and the context determines a great deal what is an acceptable, ie. understandable, answer here. Get context savvy and save yourself and the others confusion and hurt.

mindslight 2y ago
Except that when you're dealing with grief or another type of extreme stress, that whole sense of light-hearted context dependent word play goes out the window. The patterned responses are no longer appropriate, and falling back on literal interpretation is the only thing you have in you. GP, I feel you. Personally I often just said/say "okay" or "alright", which decidedly means not okay in the cultural context, but I don't particularly care about ruffling feathers.

gloryjulio 2y ago

Its meaning is just hello if that's the translation you are looking for

mikegreenberg 2y ago

I've felt this to the point that I attempt to preempt the fake concern with my own rhetorical "Hope everything is going well for you." I'd like to think this alleviates the other party from feeling like they have to share anything they aren't comfortable with but allows them room to respond if they choose.

Rhapso 2y ago
This is a much better way of going about it.