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Watching "Grizzly Man" with a bear biologist
- kevinsky 2y agoBest quote from the article "It doesn’t sound like they needed him as much as he needed them." Bears don't need people, just leave them alone.
- timonoko 2y agoI am also real life Grizzly Man. Watching Herzogs film 10 years later caused some indigestion. Those damn bears totally ignored me. At this beach family of bears walked past my tent and did not even bother to investigate. https://youtu.be/IK0wJ9y266I?si=TokV4ewiEvhl5Qev&t=1470 https://youtu.be/IK0wJ9y266I?si=TokV4ewiEvhl5Qev&t=1470 The reason was probably that I really did not have anything to eat. Just some kilos of flour for rainy days. I was living on fish and berries for 3 months.
- stavros 2y agoThat can't be it: You had a lot to eat.
- timonoko 2y agoErh What. There is only one foodstore on Kodiak. I had what I could carry in one dry-pack. I sometimes made bear-proof stashes, because coast guard nannies so suggested, but it did not seem to matter. Only foxes were real nuisance, they chewed my wetsuit for example.
- stavros 2y agoYou had a ton of meat on your bones.
- timonoko 2y agoRemarkably little. Under 60 kilos after 3 months on fish diet.
- southernplaces7 2y agoWhoosh. That would be the sound of that bit of humor above flying right above your head.
- dpratt 2y agoHow much do you weigh?
- 1234letshaveatw 2y agothe reason probably was that they weren't hungry enough. They took a measure of risk vs. need
- Aurornis 2y ago> The reason was probably that I really did not have anything to eat. The reason was that they weren’t hungry. Bears don’t randomly kill and eat every animal they encounter.
- HanClinto 2y agoThat is some absolutely beautiful footage. Thank you for sharing! Side note, the ffmpeg stabilization works surprisingly well -- thanks for sharing your commands in the YT comment!
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- IncreasePosts 2y agoForget that, you need to start marketing your clipper vacuum attachment.
- ljf 2y agoI was interested to see that this link was flagged the other day after getting around 15 upvotes but no comments. Pleased to see it back as I thought the post was worthy of a read. Watching this film set me off in a Herzog marathon - amazing director. (edit - a little researching and I see this is the same post that I vouched after it was flagged, pleased to see the system lets good links back)
- cheese_van 2y ago<Watching this film set me off in a Herzog marathon - amazing director.> While in Alaska for the shoot, Hertzog took the time to address students at the U of Alaska in Anchorage. It was in the evening, in a teeny classroom, with only a few people there. The only thing I remember (man, that was awhile ago) was how personable Herzog was. He told the story of his start, that when he was just a very young teenager, he stole (stole!) a rather expensive camera to shoot his first story. "You stole it?" someone conversationally asked? "Yes, I REALLY wanted to film," Hertzog gleefully replied.
- cmsefton 2y agoHe recounts this story in his book, Every Man for Himself and God Against All, which is a cracking read. The audiobook is narrated by him, so I imagine that would be worth a listen (not done it myself). I had the privilege to see him talk in London several years ago, and the thing that struck me from both the talk and the book, was how curious he is is about things, and his general attitude of just trying to do the things he was interested in regardless of obstacles, exploring his ideas, no matter how hard, outlandish or crazy they were.
- sdwr 2y agoThat's Hertzog in a nutshell! Impish, obliquely egotistical, kind and gifted. He's the most palatable example of a Nietzsche-an superman
- tstrimple 2y agoThere is a part of me that strongly identifies with the "Grizzly Man" and Supertramps of the world. Yeah, often they make stupid decisions and go into things unprepared. But they are willing to go into the unknown in a way the vast majority of society is not. They are trying to experience the world as humans throughout history have experienced the world. And their experience ending in their death isn't the condemnation that people seem to think it is. Because that's where we all end up. And they reached that point by doing things that were not just outside of their comfort zone but the comfort zone of every normie in this country. They are easy to ridicule from the safety of a youtube video, but these people actually lived in these places and experienced these things in a way the vast majority of modern humanity never will. It's easy to judge. It's far more difficult to live in a way that defies society. Even when those lives are cut short, I think it's worth exploring and celebrating. They were trying to buck the trend. They were real hackers in a way most on this site cannot really comprehend.
- marcus_holmes 2y agoI don't identify with it at all, but I'm glad some people do. When we finally get our shit together and send people to Mars despite that being a one-way trip, I'm glad there will be volunteers who will sign up for that and go be pioneers. I hope they get a school named after them.
- lazide 2y agoEh, I’m fairly certain that point was passed many seasons before he finally got eaten. Good point though!
- poulpy123 2y agoI don't say I identify with him but I have some respect and even admiration for McCandless, because I think I understand his feelings from what I've read and watched about him, but I don't have the same feeling for Treadwell though
- toenail 2y agoThey were both ill-prepared and harmed their environment. Anybody who gets help for their mental health problems deserves more admiration.
- lqet 2y ago> Wes: There’s audio recording of him dying. My advisor listened to it. I’ve never listened to it, but it’s 15 minutes of him being dismantled by a bear. You can hear his arm being separated from his body in it. It’s the worst possible way to go. God, I remember watching the scene in "Grizzly Man" in which Werner Herzog listens to this exact audio recording. Even via proxy, it's very hard to stomach. https://youtu.be/IP2BQLOWi4M?si=yy76XPhS6woyyA86&t=170 https://youtu.be/IP2BQLOWi4M?si=yy76XPhS6woyyA86&t=170 In Herzog's own words: > It's the most terrifying thing I've ever heard in my life. Being shocked like that, I told her, "You should never listen to it, and you should rather destroy [the tape]. It should not be sitting on your shelf in your living room all the time."
- RamRodification 2y agoHow can someone tell, in an audio recording of a man being eaten by a bear, that at one specific point, you are hearing his arm being separated from his body? I'd like to think that he narrated it while it was happening. But imma call BS on this one.
- nkrisc 2y agoIt might make a rather distinctive sound, based on what I’ve heard from other large mammals being butchered.
- mannykannot 2y agoAnd maybe the remaining physical evidence ruled out other limbs.
- scotteric 2y agoHe was alive and conscious for the 15 minutes of the attack. He may have screamed about his arm to his girlfriend.
- EdwardDiego 2y agoAHHHH NOT MY ARM. Also, joints make a distinctive noise when being... decoupled. But I suspect the narration may have helped nail down which joint was in play.
- polairscience 2y agoBiologists often have a lens for the world that I deeply admire. This one was a very éloquent intetviewee. They were very humanizing as well as empathetic and analytical in their discussion of Treadwell. They were also pragmatic about what it all means in context for the bears and the world. What a person.
- chakintosh 2y agoThe most tragic part about this story is not his death, he chose a lifestyle and stuck to it despite all the warnings, for me it's the fact he persuaded his girlfriend to camp with him in bear territory and ultimately got her mauled as well.
- gadders 2y agoAnyone who can spend 6 minutes fighting a bear with a frying pan is brave as fuck. She was a hero.
- chakintosh 2y agoThat's not my point.
- mpalmer 2y agoReplies don't have to be a continuation of your point.
- teddyh 2y ago[flagged]
- gadders 2y agoYes, but you specifically mentioned her. I agree with you, but wanted to highlight her heroism (which in an ideal world would not have been needed)
- s1artibartfast 2y agowhat is heroic at all about fighting frantically for ones ones life? The brave part Brave I get that. Heroic, not so much.
- gadders 2y ago
- teh_infallible 2y agoRewatching this film, it really seemed fake to me. I love it, but I think it’s a mockumentary
- EdwardDiego 2y agoYou going to elaborate on that?
- nkurz 2y agoNot the OP, but I have some of the same concern. No, it's not a "mockumentary"; yes, it's based on true events; but based on some of Herzog's other films and public statements, there are good reasons to doubt that it's a straight factual account of what happened. Herzog has frequently stated that he's not trying to relate straight facts, but is going for a deeper truth. In pursuit of this, he's frequently bent the facts in his other "documentaries" to achieve the narrative that he's aiming for. I vouched for the parent comment because I think it's a view that should be discussed rather than suppressed. I like his art, but equating a Herzog documentary with factual truth is likely to end badly. I've only skimmed it (and I don't have time to read it closer today) but this looks to be a decent academic paper that explores some of the problems with Grizzly Man: Conceiving Grizzly Man through the "Powers of the False" ... But is Grizzly Man a documentary at all? Is it a "true" or appropriate representation of reality? Grizzly Man engages in "creative falsification" -- a cinematic concept theorized by Gilles Deleuze in which the filmmaker generates optical images which bond to virtual images (or images that evoke a people's general past, fantasies, and dreams) to reveal some representation of "truth" https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/scope/documents/2008/june-2008/dewberry.pdf https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/scope/documents/2008/june-2008/...
- s1artibartfast 2y agoFascinating paper. The primary point doesn't seem to be that Hetzog has bent any facts, but willfully presents his subjective interpretation of the world. It is more akin to the idea that all perception, thought, meaning, and opinions operate in a realm distinct from the material world. The following sentences after your quote make this clear. >But is Grizzly Man a documentary at all? Is it a "true" or appropriate representation of reality? Most scholars presently writing on documentary posit that the duplication of realities through cinema is always fictional because of its use of rhetorical figures and emblematic symbolism, regardless of claims of objectivity or historical significance. As a filmmaker, Herzog shares this ideological: all documentary is false even if it conveys the myth of objectivity
- hdersch 2y agoWhat is definitely wrong in this article is the claim, that only bears eat living prey. Also wolves do that. There are many cases where wolves attacked animals (cows, sheep, deer), and as soon as those are immobilized, start feeding. Sometimes these animals survive with horrible wounds. Many images and videos can be found via google.
- technothrasher 2y agoI've personally witnessed both wild dogs and lions in Botswana starting to eat their prey before it is dead.
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago[flagged]
- ericmcer 2y agoNature is brutal, we should all be really thankful that we get to die in a bed being made as comfortable as possible. For every other animal in history death was almost guaranteed to be something scary and painful.
- vundercind 2y agoNature’s like living in a 24/7 horror movie for most things that aren’t humans. All those pretty birds you see are like one mistake and bit of bad luck from being ripped to shreds—at all times. Yikes.
- ziofill 2y agoYep. That keeps happening e.g. in the mountains in northern italy. Cows with huge wounds stumble back from the field, it's horrific. And when the farmers kill a wolf it's an outpour of indignation from animal welfare :/
- pvaldes 2y agoMastiff dogs are the real culprits in more cases that people would expect. Had been videotaped doing exactly this. A wolf pack will kill the prey, two mastiffs just bite, sit and wait watching the cow die. They can't kill the cow efficiently. They will respect animals in their "family" herd, but don't have this restriction against cattle from other herds or species that are not defending, specially when not feed accurately by the owners (If they guard sheep they can still see young cows as fair game). The main difference between wolves and shepherd dogs is that dogs aren't neither afraid to cows or men.
- User23 2y agoI read once that the root word that evolved into all the modern Indo-European variants of bear began as a euphemism to avoid having to say the creature’s name and risking summoning it. It meant something like “the brown one.”
- neaden 2y agoIn English, and other Germanic language, it comes from the brown one. In Slavic languages bears are called honey eaters. In other languages though like Welsh they don't appear to have had the taboo and use a deririvative of the older PIE word, which is thought to be something like rktho.
- User23 2y agoGiven the dearth of bears in Wales I suppose it’s an acceptable risk.
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- gavindean90 2y agoIf you haven’t seen this you might enjoy: https://xkcd.com/2381/ https://xkcd.com/2381/
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- overkill28 2y agoThe clips reminded me of how great The Grizzly Man soundtrack is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grizzly_Man_(soundtrack) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grizzly_Man_(soundtrack)
- d1sxeyes 2y agoRichard Thompson is a genius.
- Mistletoe 2y agoI went on a Grizzly Man return deep dive the other day and found the autopsy reports and ranger reports. Those rangers had a very scary time returning to that scene. There is a lot to be learned here. https://www.nps.gov/aboutus/foia/upload/03-109_KATM_Treadwell_fatality_REDACTED.pdf https://www.nps.gov/aboutus/foia/upload/03-109_KATM_Treadwel...
- scrubs 2y agoMy father was a field biologist. His specialties: grizzly and polar bears. I've sat on both after tranquilized whereupon basic data is taken and radio attached (1970-1980 tech). Hemingway would have killed to his buddy. He then went on to build and run a naturalist lodge -- all this in the far far north west of Canada. Accessible by bush plane only. As a guest you could ask about flora, mammals, birds, fishing, moose, bears, Dall horn sheep, plants, birds of prey, ecology circles etc and you'd get a good answer. I got to see all this up close over my summers. When you spend that kind of time where mother nature is that unmessed around with ... well I understand now why some people are partial to land being left alone and probably why city people will never get it. There's a connection to it. I wrote all to to say: there were no tvs, no camera crews, no shows 6pm west coast 9pm est. You were there cause of passion. Because of a decision. And frankly, that's the better way. Cowboys and corporations naturally collide: Ian Tyson I think this background is why I've never been fully happy in Corporate America. The petty control -- where's your badge? -- even though I worked at the damn place for 10+ years is something I'll never understand. Petty beurceatric control to "help you" ... I miss the old days