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>the Russian leadership has no interest in globalization That's factually incorrect. [0][1] [0] https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/from-lisbon-to-vla

>the Russian leadership has no interest in globalization That's factually incorrect. [0][1] [0] https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/from-lisbon-to-vladivostok-putin-envisions-a-russia-eu-free-trade-zone-a-731109.html https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/from-lisbon-to-v... [1] https://pure.iiasa.ac.at/id/eprint/16150/ https://pure.iiasa.ac.at/id/eprint/16150/

h0l0cube 2y ago
The starting of a war with allies is in contradiction with a desire to improve trade ties. If you remember, Nordstream, a product of trade freedom, was a point of leverage at the outset (until it wasn't). Hardly in the spirit of globalization. The idea that Russia wants a congenial and cooperative relationship, is laughable, not just due to the war, but also actions like poisoning political leaders. But I do agree that greater trade freedom for Russia would be good for Russia either way, but globalization has coded in it the gestalt of geopolitical stability — not what the current Russian leadership wants.
- protomolecule 2y ago
  With which allies? I fail to understand you right from the beginning.
  - h0l0cube 2y ago
    You don't think Ukraine is allied with western Europe? The assassination attempt on Yuschenko was clearly trying to remove the western-friendly democratically elected president of Ukraine. The people of Ukraine, by majority, are overwhelmingly interested in being closer to the west, though their interest in NATO has only been recent. That interest has been reciprocated broadly by Europe and by the EU, much to the displeasure of Russia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yushchenko#TCDD_poisoning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yushchenko#TCDD_poisoni... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93NATO_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93NATO_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93European_Union_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93European_Union...
    - protomolecule 2y ago
      So why plural? And no, it's been over two years and no other country has joined the fight. Your link related to Yushchenko says that he was allegedly poisoned by three Ukrainians. "The people of Ukraine, by majority" That glosses over the division between Western and Eastern Ukraine. Majority of people of Crimea, Donetsk and Luhask regions were against the association with the EU as your own link says. "are overwhelmingly interested in being closer to the west" When faced with the either/or question. The majority was for having good relations with both Russia and the EU. Here is what Merkel's Vice Chancellor Sigmar Gabriel said at the time: "Certainly, the European Union has also made mistakes, although this does not justify Russia's behavior," Gabriel told the German daily Rheinische Post. "It was certainly not smart to create the impression in Ukraine that it had to decide between Russia and the EU," the Economy Minister added. "But again: That was not and is not a justification to plunge a country into chaos." [0] That "mistake" doesn't look to me like a desire for congenial and cooperative relationship with Russia. [0] https://www.newsweek.com/german-official-says-it-was-wrong-make-ukraine-pick-between-eu-and-russia-251038 https://www.newsweek.com/german-official-says-it-was-wrong-m...
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - h0l0cube 2y ago
        > no other country has joined the fight Yet they'll supply weapons. Seems obvious why countries aren't willing to enter direct conflict with Russia, so I won't waste my time. > Your link related to Yushchenko says that he was allegedly poisoned by three Ukrainians. The link also points out they were likely compromised or held allegiance to Russia. Any assertion that this as being a domestically led coup is mind boggling. Especially in the wake of the election scandal. > Majority of people of Crimea, Donetsk and Luhask regions were against the association with the EU as your own link says. I suppose you could just drill down to whatever sub-population of a country you want and the dissenting view becomes the majority. But every time I hear this disingenuous argument, it seems to be forgotten that Russia's military ambition at the outset was to secure all of Ukraine. > That "mistake" doesn't look to me like a desire for congenial and cooperative relationship with Russia. Russia, under Putin's leadership, had long made the west aware it was going to play dirty. The possibility for a cooperative relationship between Russia and the west vanished when a man driven by resentment towards the west became the most powerful figure in the country. I could dive into this, but it's not worth my time. I'm sensing you have a partisan conflict here, so I'll leave you to have the last word.

h0l0cube 2y ago

The starting of a war with allies is in contradiction with a desire to improve trade ties. If you remember, Nordstream, a product of trade freedom, was a point of leverage at the outset (until it wasn't). Hardly in the spirit of globalization. The idea that Russia wants a congenial and cooperative relationship, is laughable, not just due to the war, but also actions like poisoning political leaders. But I do agree that greater trade freedom for Russia would be good for Russia either way, but globalization has coded in it the gestalt of geopolitical stability — not what the current Russian leadership wants.

protomolecule 2y ago
With which allies? I fail to understand you right from the beginning.
- h0l0cube 2y ago
  You don't think Ukraine is allied with western Europe? The assassination attempt on Yuschenko was clearly trying to remove the western-friendly democratically elected president of Ukraine. The people of Ukraine, by majority, are overwhelmingly interested in being closer to the west, though their interest in NATO has only been recent. That interest has been reciprocated broadly by Europe and by the EU, much to the displeasure of Russia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yushchenko#TCDD_poisoning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yushchenko#TCDD_poisoni... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93NATO_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93NATO_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93European_Union_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93European_Union...
  - protomolecule 2y ago
    So why plural? And no, it's been over two years and no other country has joined the fight. Your link related to Yushchenko says that he was allegedly poisoned by three Ukrainians. "The people of Ukraine, by majority" That glosses over the division between Western and Eastern Ukraine. Majority of people of Crimea, Donetsk and Luhask regions were against the association with the EU as your own link says. "are overwhelmingly interested in being closer to the west" When faced with the either/or question. The majority was for having good relations with both Russia and the EU. Here is what Merkel's Vice Chancellor Sigmar Gabriel said at the time: "Certainly, the European Union has also made mistakes, although this does not justify Russia's behavior," Gabriel told the German daily Rheinische Post. "It was certainly not smart to create the impression in Ukraine that it had to decide between Russia and the EU," the Economy Minister added. "But again: That was not and is not a justification to plunge a country into chaos." [0] That "mistake" doesn't look to me like a desire for congenial and cooperative relationship with Russia. [0] https://www.newsweek.com/german-official-says-it-was-wrong-make-ukraine-pick-between-eu-and-russia-251038 https://www.newsweek.com/german-official-says-it-was-wrong-m...
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - h0l0cube 2y ago
      > no other country has joined the fight Yet they'll supply weapons. Seems obvious why countries aren't willing to enter direct conflict with Russia, so I won't waste my time. > Your link related to Yushchenko says that he was allegedly poisoned by three Ukrainians. The link also points out they were likely compromised or held allegiance to Russia. Any assertion that this as being a domestically led coup is mind boggling. Especially in the wake of the election scandal. > Majority of people of Crimea, Donetsk and Luhask regions were against the association with the EU as your own link says. I suppose you could just drill down to whatever sub-population of a country you want and the dissenting view becomes the majority. But every time I hear this disingenuous argument, it seems to be forgotten that Russia's military ambition at the outset was to secure all of Ukraine. > That "mistake" doesn't look to me like a desire for congenial and cooperative relationship with Russia. Russia, under Putin's leadership, had long made the west aware it was going to play dirty. The possibility for a cooperative relationship between Russia and the west vanished when a man driven by resentment towards the west became the most powerful figure in the country. I could dive into this, but it's not worth my time. I'm sensing you have a partisan conflict here, so I'll leave you to have the last word.