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> Something equivalent to manorial lordship. A manor lord is not a noble. Functionally speaking, people like Thomas Jefferson and George Washington, who held l

> Something equivalent to manorial lordship. A manor lord is not a noble. Functionally speaking, people like Thomas Jefferson and George Washington, who held large estates, would have been roughly equivalent in stature to a manor lord, or what was by that time a gentleman. They would have been eligible to vote in, or be a member of, the House of Commons, but not the House of Lords. In general, the goal of the Titles and Nobility clause is to foreclose the possibility of an American peerage. It is worth noting that there is a very important difference between a title of nobility and title to property rights. Were I an English peer, I would have no right to decide who should inherit my title upon my death (or even before then); the title's inheritance is strictly decided by the monarch. But for property, I can generally subdivide the property at will, and even grant other people the property or use thereof subject to almost whatever constraints I can put on it (this is where things like the rule against perpetuities come in). Water rights are property rights, not titles of nobility, and it's not even a close question.

anonymouskimmer 2y ago
> But for property, I can generally subdivide the property at will From what I recently read, subinfeudation of a manorial property (lesser baron) was pretty much banned in 1290 with the Quia Emptores statute. After passage of the law they could only transfer the right entirely. A manor lord is a lesser noble, just like a knight, just not a peerage noble. The ability to subdivide or lease out water rights is limited in Kansas according to certain laws. And regardless, it's the heritable senior right to this shared resource that certain holders have, that others with equally sized farms or populations cannot claim, that I'm calling a noble entitlement.
skhunted 2y ago
From the Wikipedia article on usufruct. Thomas Jefferson famously wrote in 1789 that "Earth belongs – in usufruct – to the living." Jefferson's metaphor means that, like a usufructuary, human beings have the right to use the earth for their own benefit and derive profit from it, but only to the extent that their actions do not impoverish the earth's bounty for future generations. I very much agree with Jefferson’s views on this matter.

anonymouskimmer 2y ago

> But for property, I can generally subdivide the property at will From what I recently read, subinfeudation of a manorial property (lesser baron) was pretty much banned in 1290 with the Quia Emptores statute. After passage of the law they could only transfer the right entirely. A manor lord is a lesser noble, just like a knight, just not a peerage noble. The ability to subdivide or lease out water rights is limited in Kansas according to certain laws. And regardless, it's the heritable senior right to this shared resource that certain holders have, that others with equally sized farms or populations cannot claim, that I'm calling a noble entitlement.

skhunted 2y ago

From the Wikipedia article on usufruct. Thomas Jefferson famously wrote in 1789 that "Earth belongs – in usufruct – to the living." Jefferson's metaphor means that, like a usufructuary, human beings have the right to use the earth for their own benefit and derive profit from it, but only to the extent that their actions do not impoverish the earth's bounty for future generations. I very much agree with Jefferson’s views on this matter.