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Another example is music. Music needs to have a repetitive pattern, but it shouldn't be too repetitive or it's boring. The best combination is to establish som

by ajuc 2y ago

Another example is music. Music needs to have a repetitive pattern, but it shouldn't be too repetitive or it's boring. The best combination is to establish some patterns by repetition, then break these patterns and introduce new ones to keep the listener guessing, but the deviations should form a bigger pattern as well. It's the best when you can notice the pattern quickly, then before it gets boring it changes, and the new pattern feels like you could have predicted it - but you didn't. The concept of tension and resolution is fundamental in music, and I think this is very closely related to expectation and surprise - and thus to repetition and pattern-breaking.

DavidPiper 2y ago
From Arnold Schoenberg's Fundamentals of Music Composition: > "Intelligibility in music seems to be impossible without repetition. While repetition without variation can easily produce monotony, juxtaposition of distantly related elements can easily degenerate into nonsense... Only so much variation as character, length, and tempo required should be admitted." I'm not completely sure how this squares with the fact that I can listen to a song that I like dozens of times and still enjoy it, but I definitely understand it from the point of view of constructing an interesting work in the first place.
- xboxnolifes 2y ago
  > I'm not completely sure how this squares with the fact that I can listen to a song that I like dozens of times and still enjoy it Well, it raises the question of: does listening to a non-repetitive song, repeatedly, make it repetitive? Is there a certain gap of time that, even if something repeats, that it no longer feels repetitive?
- ajuc 2y ago
  I think the part of our brains that enjoys music only has short-term memory and is experiencing the pattern-breaking surprise every time, even if you remember the song consciously. I'd say it's even over time trained to recognize the patters it encounters quicker, so the songs become MORE enjoyable the more you listen to them (up to a point).
shermantanktop 2y ago
Most pop/rock music follows a sort of “rule of two”- introduce a new element which catches the ear, then repeat it, then introduce another element, repeat it, etc. can be as small as a single instrument part (flute sound in the background) or as large as a song section. Rarely does something happen only once, or get repeated many times without modification.
- dieselgate 2y ago
  Indeed. Bass lines can be interesting in this regard - they are often repetitive by definition. One song and bass line I find captivating is “All Things” [1] by Hieroglyphics; the bass line anchors the whole song and repeats for the entirety! It works, in my opinion, though seems to be incredibly rare for any part to loop for an entire track. The song “truck bed” [2] by Hardy has a similar longterm loop on the guitar part but it doesn’t last the entirety, it builds up to a release at the end. Former radio dj so just think about these kinds of things a lot when listening to music. [1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f70SRaMxSgM https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f70SRaMxSgM [2] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IpIhCdqa-mg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IpIhCdqa-mg

by ajuc 2y ago

DavidPiper 2y ago

From Arnold Schoenberg's Fundamentals of Music Composition: > "Intelligibility in music seems to be impossible without repetition. While repetition without variation can easily produce monotony, juxtaposition of distantly related elements can easily degenerate into nonsense... Only so much variation as character, length, and tempo required should be admitted." I'm not completely sure how this squares with the fact that I can listen to a song that I like dozens of times and still enjoy it, but I definitely understand it from the point of view of constructing an interesting work in the first place.

xboxnolifes 2y ago
> I'm not completely sure how this squares with the fact that I can listen to a song that I like dozens of times and still enjoy it Well, it raises the question of: does listening to a non-repetitive song, repeatedly, make it repetitive? Is there a certain gap of time that, even if something repeats, that it no longer feels repetitive?
ajuc 2y ago
I think the part of our brains that enjoys music only has short-term memory and is experiencing the pattern-breaking surprise every time, even if you remember the song consciously. I'd say it's even over time trained to recognize the patters it encounters quicker, so the songs become MORE enjoyable the more you listen to them (up to a point).

shermantanktop 2y ago

Most pop/rock music follows a sort of “rule of two”- introduce a new element which catches the ear, then repeat it, then introduce another element, repeat it, etc. can be as small as a single instrument part (flute sound in the background) or as large as a song section. Rarely does something happen only once, or get repeated many times without modification.

dieselgate 2y ago
Indeed. Bass lines can be interesting in this regard - they are often repetitive by definition. One song and bass line I find captivating is “All Things” [1] by Hieroglyphics; the bass line anchors the whole song and repeats for the entirety! It works, in my opinion, though seems to be incredibly rare for any part to loop for an entire track. The song “truck bed” [2] by Hardy has a similar longterm loop on the guitar part but it doesn’t last the entirety, it builds up to a release at the end. Former radio dj so just think about these kinds of things a lot when listening to music. [1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f70SRaMxSgM https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f70SRaMxSgM [2] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IpIhCdqa-mg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IpIhCdqa-mg