4 ms·

Can you cite an example of where Canadian protests by "lefties" took over a major public road for weeks on end, and disrupted the lives of thousands of citizens

by sbarre 2y ago

Can you cite an example of where Canadian protests by "lefties" took over a major public road for weeks on end, and disrupted the lives of thousands of citizens, harassing them, depriving them of sleep, preventing their ability to get to/from their homes and businesses? I can tell you're already very convinced of who was right and wrong in this and you're trying to make this a left vs right thing, but there are limits to how many problems you can cause when you protest - no matter the cause - before civil society (via it's police force and/or government) says "ok, that's enough". Either that, or civil society sides with you, and then major change happens. And I guess no one wanted to side with the COVID-denying racists.

belorn 2y ago
> before civil society (via it's police force and/or government) says "ok, that's enough". Can you elaborate why it is "and/or government". Why is it acceptable that the government by-pass the normal legal system in dealing with protestors?
- sbarre 2y ago
  > Why is it acceptable that the government by-pass the normal legal system in dealing with protestors? I'm not going to debate whether it was legal or not with you because (I'm assuming) neither of us are lawyers. I'll say that I don't particularly agree with the bank account shenanigans they pulled, but they only did that because the Ottawa police force completely failed to do their job in dealing with the blockade. I definitely don't like the precedent that was set, but having seen the blockade first hand (it was not a "peaceful protest", it was an aggressive encampment that was regularly threatening to passerbys and locals) and the impact it had on the area - my parents live nearby - they had to do something. I support the rights of citizens to protest but as I said, there's a limit.
  - belorn 2y ago
    The legality of the event is know. It was illegal, as deemed by a court of law. The question I was after is if the concept is ever moral or reasonable to deal with protestors with methods outside the legal system. Common methods are the military, but also martial law, suspending bank accounts (without a court decision), and other methods. Current in Sweden we had recent several demonstrations that lead to riots, and historically we had major ones including one that lead to several demonstrators getting shot. Every single time, researchers and government investigations has found that using anything other than the regular legal system is counter productive, and in some cases very deadly. If the police don't do their job you get more police from other regions. In a event just a few months ago, they even got police from nearby countries to help (despite massive demonstrations and influx of tourists, crime went significant down during that period). In general, the problem of police not doing their job seems to stem from when they are afraid. Either because of being extremely outnumbered, or in combination with poor instruction (with can lead to being afraid of doing mistakes in a political hot situation). Both are problems that can be solved by politicians without going outside the framework of the legal system.
JacobThreeThree 2y ago
Here's one where the protesters blockaded rail lines for months causing layoffs and many millions in lost revenue. Why didn't the government shut down these protestors bank accounts? https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/via-rail-layoffs-1.5468617 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/via-rail-layoffs-1.5468617
- sbarre 2y ago
  Not really "lefties" here, but this is a reasonable example... I will say that First Nations issues in Canada are pretty complicated, particularly when it comes to unceded territories and the rights around those. It's also worth mentioning that those rail line blockades in Ontario were done in support of other protests in BC where the government eventually sent cops in riot gear to dismantle the blockades by violence. Something that didn't happen in Ottawa, and I'll let you figure out why.
  - JacobThreeThree 2y ago
    >the government eventually sent cops in riot gear to dismantle the blockades by violence. The Ottawa police did the exact same thing. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/19/world/canada/canada-truckers-arrested.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/19/world/canada/canada-truck...
Dig1t 2y ago
"COVID-denying racists." Have you seen videos or pictures of the protestors? They were all different races, there wasn't an ounce of "racism" anywhere in there.
- sbarre 2y ago
  My friend, my parents live right near where this happened.. I had to go help them many times. I don't need to see "videos or pictures" I saw it with my own eyes, repeatedly. I saw first hand the confederate flags, the screamed slurs at passerbys, the aggressive racist-coded chants and associated violent rhetoric.. One night my mom got screamed at by a drunken asshole waving a big confederate flag, she was shaking so badly she didn't sleep that night.. So your hearsay "there wasn't an ounce of racism anywhere in there" can take a hike.

by sbarre 2y ago

belorn 2y ago

> before civil society (via it's police force and/or government) says "ok, that's enough". Can you elaborate why it is "and/or government". Why is it acceptable that the government by-pass the normal legal system in dealing with protestors?

sbarre 2y ago
> Why is it acceptable that the government by-pass the normal legal system in dealing with protestors? I'm not going to debate whether it was legal or not with you because (I'm assuming) neither of us are lawyers. I'll say that I don't particularly agree with the bank account shenanigans they pulled, but they only did that because the Ottawa police force completely failed to do their job in dealing with the blockade. I definitely don't like the precedent that was set, but having seen the blockade first hand (it was not a "peaceful protest", it was an aggressive encampment that was regularly threatening to passerbys and locals) and the impact it had on the area - my parents live nearby - they had to do something. I support the rights of citizens to protest but as I said, there's a limit.
- belorn 2y ago
  The legality of the event is know. It was illegal, as deemed by a court of law. The question I was after is if the concept is ever moral or reasonable to deal with protestors with methods outside the legal system. Common methods are the military, but also martial law, suspending bank accounts (without a court decision), and other methods. Current in Sweden we had recent several demonstrations that lead to riots, and historically we had major ones including one that lead to several demonstrators getting shot. Every single time, researchers and government investigations has found that using anything other than the regular legal system is counter productive, and in some cases very deadly. If the police don't do their job you get more police from other regions. In a event just a few months ago, they even got police from nearby countries to help (despite massive demonstrations and influx of tourists, crime went significant down during that period). In general, the problem of police not doing their job seems to stem from when they are afraid. Either because of being extremely outnumbered, or in combination with poor instruction (with can lead to being afraid of doing mistakes in a political hot situation). Both are problems that can be solved by politicians without going outside the framework of the legal system.

JacobThreeThree 2y ago

Here's one where the protesters blockaded rail lines for months causing layoffs and many millions in lost revenue. Why didn't the government shut down these protestors bank accounts? https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/via-rail-layoffs-1.5468617 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/via-rail-layoffs-1.5468617

sbarre 2y ago
Not really "lefties" here, but this is a reasonable example... I will say that First Nations issues in Canada are pretty complicated, particularly when it comes to unceded territories and the rights around those. It's also worth mentioning that those rail line blockades in Ontario were done in support of other protests in BC where the government eventually sent cops in riot gear to dismantle the blockades by violence. Something that didn't happen in Ottawa, and I'll let you figure out why.
- JacobThreeThree 2y ago
  >the government eventually sent cops in riot gear to dismantle the blockades by violence. The Ottawa police did the exact same thing. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/19/world/canada/canada-truckers-arrested.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/19/world/canada/canada-truck...

Dig1t 2y ago

"COVID-denying racists." Have you seen videos or pictures of the protestors? They were all different races, there wasn't an ounce of "racism" anywhere in there.

sbarre 2y ago
My friend, my parents live right near where this happened.. I had to go help them many times. I don't need to see "videos or pictures" I saw it with my own eyes, repeatedly. I saw first hand the confederate flags, the screamed slurs at passerbys, the aggressive racist-coded chants and associated violent rhetoric.. One night my mom got screamed at by a drunken asshole waving a big confederate flag, she was shaking so badly she didn't sleep that night.. So your hearsay "there wasn't an ounce of racism anywhere in there" can take a hike.