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It's often pretty hard to do public protest without breaking some kind of law, even if you do everything you're supposed to. I'm not a fan of the truckers (the

It's often pretty hard to do public protest without breaking some kind of law, even if you do everything you're supposed to. I'm not a fan of the truckers (the loud horns were totally infuriating) but the fundamental problem was that the police didn't want to move them on, not that they were breaking the law.

throw0101b 2y ago
> It's often pretty hard to do public protest without breaking some kind of law, even if you do everything you're supposed to. All movements start small, and if you want to have your movement be a success it involves bringing more and more people over to your point of view / side. One can be disruptive in that you hold a rally or march to raise awareness, and be seen (in numbers) by folks on the street. Marches / parades are disruptive to traffic but if you've planned it and told people about it then they can plan around it. One can also go in, cause some trouble, and then disperse so that you get in the news but also do not piss of non-involved people. But being disruptive so that you piss people off is a way to not get more people onto your side of your movement. It is a way to inhibit further involvement of the public towards your side. A movement must be aware of how its actions are perceived by non-members of the movement. Just because you interpret things a certain way does not mean that the general public won't view you as a jackass: > “It’s a sign of independence,” he said. “I look at it as a rebel sign. In the biker community, a lot of people have the Confederate flag because we’re rebels.” > But to many, the flag is a racist symbol and a disturbing reminder of the U.S. Confederacy’s fight to preserve slavery. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau denounced their display at the Ottawa protest, saying his government wouldn’t give in to “racist flags.” * https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/freedom-convoy-supporter-says-confederate-flag-on-his-truck-a-rebel-sign-1.6227288 https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/freedom-convoy-supporter-says-... I don't know which "biker community" this guy is talking about, but as a motorcyclist I don't view the Confederate flag positively.
- mandmandam 2y ago
  That argument was used (a lot) to decry suffragette protests and desegregation protests. I for one am glad that women and black people didn't take it too seriously. You may want to read some MLK - he had some very clear words about the liberal who demands civility in the face of oppression.
  - CamperBob2 2y ago
    So MLK and the suffragettes blockaded the town square and blew truck horns all night. Got it. Oh, wait, no, they voluntarily sacrificed their freedom and were arrested, beaten, and tortured for their beliefs. I guess you're confused.
    - mandmandam 2y ago
      Suffragettes did block roads, yes. So did MLK. Lol.
    - sys_64738 2y ago
      Not forgetting being executed by the government. Trumpers from the 1950s and 1960s.
    - dang 2y ago
      You posted many flamewar comments in this thread and appear to have done more than any other single account to spoil it. We ban accounts that do this, and your account has (it turns out) been doing it for a long long time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34537163 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34537163 (Jan 2023) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22904111 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22904111 (April 2020) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22114100 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22114100 (Jan 2020) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19449785 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19449785 (March 2019) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18233901 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18233901 (Oct 2018) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16783015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16783015 (April 2018) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14278148 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14278148 (May 2017) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10780427 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10780427 (Dec 2015) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9985956 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9985956 (Aug 2015) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8825352 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8825352 (Jan 2015) That's excessive and abusive. We need you, same as any other user, to follow the site guidelines regardless of how right you are or feel you are, and regardless of how wrong others are or you feel they are. I appreciate your substantive posts but it's also the case that you've been posting abusively in totally other contexts (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40759689 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40759689). If you keep this up we're going to have to ban you, so if you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and fix this, that would be good.
- portaouflop 2y ago
  > But being disruptive so that you piss people off is a way to not get more people onto your side of your movement. It is a way to inhibit further involvement of the public towards your side. While I agree to some extent with your comment, I think there is some nuance needed. For a movement to succeed you need to be disruptive and piss some people off. It just depends in what way disruptive and who you piss off. For example take the women’s rights movements. Were they disruptive and did poss a lot of people off? Hell yeah they did. Did they ultimately succeed and get the public opinion on their side. Also yes. Another (horrifying) example is the nazi movement. They were extremely disruptive and pissed off a ton of people when they were still an extreme fringe group. Precisely because of that they became very successful. There are many more examples like that. A protest movement needs to be disruptive to some extent to be successful
- pasabagi 2y ago
  I don't know: as I understood it, the trucker thing was basically about showing that they occupy a strategic position in the Canadian economy. It's like the old rail strike idea: it doesn't matter if everybody hates you, if the trains aren't running, then the government has to make a deal, otherwise the economy collapses. I don't think they actually did hold that strategic position (if the police had, you know, done their jobs, they wouldn't be blocking the roads for long), but if you know that the police won't do that (because they always baby right wing protestors) it makes some sense. And that was a lot of the rhetoric from the truckers about themselves: I guess we'd just come out of the pandemic with all these sudden realizations about essential workers, which definitely included truckers, and there's often (but probably not in the trucker's case) a connection between being 'essential' and 'occupying a strategically advantageous position'.
  - throw0101b 2y ago
    > I don't know: as I understood it, the trucker thing was basically about showing that they occupy a strategic position in the Canadian economy. And yet various organizations that represent truckers, both organized unions and independents, distanced themselves from the convoy: * https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/embarrassment-for-the-industry-not-all-truckers-support-the-freedom-convoy-1.5757952 https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/embarrassment-for-the-industry... * https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/canadian-trucking-alliance-condemns-trucker-protests-1.5751439 https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/canadian-trucking-... * https://teamster.org/2022/02/teamsters-denounce-freedom-convoy-blockade-at-canadian-border/ https://teamster.org/2022/02/teamsters-denounce-freedom-conv... If the convoy was anything but a bunch of anti-vaxxers, they failed to really convey that message from my perspective. > And that was a lot of the rhetoric from the truckers about themselves: I guess we'd just come out of the pandemic with all these sudden realizations about essential workers […] I have first-hand knowledge of essential workers because of family connections to nursing and retail (food/groceries). I also have family connections to people who actually run trucking companies, and do maintenance on rigs. I personally got deemed an essential worker by my company because of my IT role, and got a letter on company letterhead stating as such for any time I had to come into the office, in case I should perhaps be stopped for breaking curfew (the organization I was with had connections with medical treatment). I don't think anyone would reasonably deny truckers are often essential, but the number of truckers making a fuss about was a tiny majority that worked in the industry.

throw0101b 2y ago

> It's often pretty hard to do public protest without breaking some kind of law, even if you do everything you're supposed to. All movements start small, and if you want to have your movement be a success it involves bringing more and more people over to your point of view / side. One can be disruptive in that you hold a rally or march to raise awareness, and be seen (in numbers) by folks on the street. Marches / parades are disruptive to traffic but if you've planned it and told people about it then they can plan around it. One can also go in, cause some trouble, and then disperse so that you get in the news but also do not piss of non-involved people. But being disruptive so that you piss people off is a way to not get more people onto your side of your movement. It is a way to inhibit further involvement of the public towards your side. A movement must be aware of how its actions are perceived by non-members of the movement. Just because you interpret things a certain way does not mean that the general public won't view you as a jackass: > “It’s a sign of independence,” he said. “I look at it as a rebel sign. In the biker community, a lot of people have the Confederate flag because we’re rebels.” > But to many, the flag is a racist symbol and a disturbing reminder of the U.S. Confederacy’s fight to preserve slavery. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau denounced their display at the Ottawa protest, saying his government wouldn’t give in to “racist flags.” * https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/freedom-convoy-supporter-says-confederate-flag-on-his-truck-a-rebel-sign-1.6227288 https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/freedom-convoy-supporter-says-... I don't know which "biker community" this guy is talking about, but as a motorcyclist I don't view the Confederate flag positively.

mandmandam 2y ago
That argument was used (a lot) to decry suffragette protests and desegregation protests. I for one am glad that women and black people didn't take it too seriously. You may want to read some MLK - he had some very clear words about the liberal who demands civility in the face of oppression.
- CamperBob2 2y ago
  So MLK and the suffragettes blockaded the town square and blew truck horns all night. Got it. Oh, wait, no, they voluntarily sacrificed their freedom and were arrested, beaten, and tortured for their beliefs. I guess you're confused.
  - mandmandam 2y ago
    Suffragettes did block roads, yes. So did MLK. Lol.
  - sys_64738 2y ago
    Not forgetting being executed by the government. Trumpers from the 1950s and 1960s.
  - dang 2y ago
    You posted many flamewar comments in this thread and appear to have done more than any other single account to spoil it. We ban accounts that do this, and your account has (it turns out) been doing it for a long long time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34537163 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34537163 (Jan 2023) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22904111 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22904111 (April 2020) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22114100 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22114100 (Jan 2020) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19449785 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19449785 (March 2019) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18233901 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18233901 (Oct 2018) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16783015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16783015 (April 2018) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14278148 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14278148 (May 2017) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10780427 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10780427 (Dec 2015) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9985956 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9985956 (Aug 2015) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8825352 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8825352 (Jan 2015) That's excessive and abusive. We need you, same as any other user, to follow the site guidelines regardless of how right you are or feel you are, and regardless of how wrong others are or you feel they are. I appreciate your substantive posts but it's also the case that you've been posting abusively in totally other contexts (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40759689 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40759689). If you keep this up we're going to have to ban you, so if you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and fix this, that would be good.
portaouflop 2y ago
> But being disruptive so that you piss people off is a way to not get more people onto your side of your movement. It is a way to inhibit further involvement of the public towards your side. While I agree to some extent with your comment, I think there is some nuance needed. For a movement to succeed you need to be disruptive and piss some people off. It just depends in what way disruptive and who you piss off. For example take the women’s rights movements. Were they disruptive and did poss a lot of people off? Hell yeah they did. Did they ultimately succeed and get the public opinion on their side. Also yes. Another (horrifying) example is the nazi movement. They were extremely disruptive and pissed off a ton of people when they were still an extreme fringe group. Precisely because of that they became very successful. There are many more examples like that. A protest movement needs to be disruptive to some extent to be successful
pasabagi 2y ago
I don't know: as I understood it, the trucker thing was basically about showing that they occupy a strategic position in the Canadian economy. It's like the old rail strike idea: it doesn't matter if everybody hates you, if the trains aren't running, then the government has to make a deal, otherwise the economy collapses. I don't think they actually did hold that strategic position (if the police had, you know, done their jobs, they wouldn't be blocking the roads for long), but if you know that the police won't do that (because they always baby right wing protestors) it makes some sense. And that was a lot of the rhetoric from the truckers about themselves: I guess we'd just come out of the pandemic with all these sudden realizations about essential workers, which definitely included truckers, and there's often (but probably not in the trucker's case) a connection between being 'essential' and 'occupying a strategically advantageous position'.
- throw0101b 2y ago
  > I don't know: as I understood it, the trucker thing was basically about showing that they occupy a strategic position in the Canadian economy. And yet various organizations that represent truckers, both organized unions and independents, distanced themselves from the convoy: * https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/embarrassment-for-the-industry-not-all-truckers-support-the-freedom-convoy-1.5757952 https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/embarrassment-for-the-industry... * https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/canadian-trucking-alliance-condemns-trucker-protests-1.5751439 https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/canadian-trucking-... * https://teamster.org/2022/02/teamsters-denounce-freedom-convoy-blockade-at-canadian-border/ https://teamster.org/2022/02/teamsters-denounce-freedom-conv... If the convoy was anything but a bunch of anti-vaxxers, they failed to really convey that message from my perspective. > And that was a lot of the rhetoric from the truckers about themselves: I guess we'd just come out of the pandemic with all these sudden realizations about essential workers […] I have first-hand knowledge of essential workers because of family connections to nursing and retail (food/groceries). I also have family connections to people who actually run trucking companies, and do maintenance on rigs. I personally got deemed an essential worker by my company because of my IT role, and got a letter on company letterhead stating as such for any time I had to come into the office, in case I should perhaps be stopped for breaking curfew (the organization I was with had connections with medical treatment). I don't think anyone would reasonably deny truckers are often essential, but the number of truckers making a fuss about was a tiny majority that worked in the industry.