5 ms·

Humidity

jelliclesfarm 2y ago
How manuscripts used to be preserved : https://drperumal.wordpress.com/2013/05/10/indigenous-methods-of-conservation/ https://drperumal.wordpress.com/2013/05/10/indigenous-method... https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/03400352221103899 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/03400352221103... I have been to a few museums and libraries where the palmyra manuscripts and texts are still preserved. They should remain with people who value them instead of handing them over to the govt. In our home library, we lost so many books where the pages were so brittle that they would break like biscuits. But the religious palm leaf scripts that have been in the family for generations were well preserved as they were wrapped in cloth. We also had some inscriptions on copper plates or some other kind of alloy metal. They were at the altar in the prayer room and kept submerged in water always. I don’t know what language it was but it was none of the known modern languages. Even today., in the deep south, there are palm leaf astrologers whose lineage have owned Nadi astrology palm leaf manuscripts that is supposed to relate everything about you life and past lives including when you will visit the astrologer. There are some authentic lineages. The text is written in Vatteluttu and script knowledge is passed down lineages only https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatteluttu https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatteluttu Nadi astrology https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadi_astrology https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadi_astrology
- dr_dshiv 2y ago
  “…also requires knowledge of genuine Nādi texts, most of which are unpublished, and the custodians do not allow others to see the manuscripts. The same is the case with Samhitā texts in north India, such as Bhrigu Samhitā or Rāvana Samhitā.”
ceejayoz 2y ago
Is there reason to believe temples in India haven't experienced humidity in the last 2,000 years?
- NoRagrets 2y ago
  They used to be sealed. HR&CE is the govt arm that is controlling Hindu Temples. It is infiltrated by anti Hindu interests who have been selling temple artifacts and manuscripts by smuggling them out of the country for hundreds of thousands of dollars.. many have been taken out of the humidity controlled vaults built by the Kings. They have been drilling and building within temple stone walls that are hundreds of years old and installing ceilings fans and lights. Here are just a few of the recent HR&CE crimes : https://x.com/joshigargigoyal/status/1806747391917511165 https://x.com/joshigargigoyal/status/1806747391917511165 And this: https://x.com/joshigargigoyal/status/1807105132087452000 https://x.com/joshigargigoyal/status/1807105132087452000
  - sharpshadow 2y ago
    Your comments here confirm my suspicion about the way the Indian government is handling the Hindu past. Sometimes I watch the YT channel of Praveen Mohan who is visiting ancient temples of the area and has difficulties to understand the dating of those, which the Indian government has a hand on and does not allow any other point of view. There is a strong likelihood that some of the those temples are much older than the date there given.
    - jelliclesfarm 2y ago
      Praveen Mohan is a YouTube influencer. He is hardly an authority on anything except bad takes.
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    A more reputable source than a Twitter screenshot of an unknown, uncited news source would be worthwhile here.
    - jelliclesfarm 2y ago
      The tweets literally quotes the problematic issues with the HRCE Act. Which part do you find ‘not reputable’ source of facts? [..] The Tamil Nadu HR&CE Act The Tamil Nadu Hindu Religious and Charitable Endowments (HR&CE) Act has been a point of contention due to various issues highlighted by critics. Lets see some significant problems associated with the Act and its implementation, with actual examples from newspapers in Tamil Nadu. 1. Control Over Temples Government Control: The Act allows the government to take control of any Hindu temple under the pretext of 'a reason to believe' there has been an irregularity, even if no actual wrongdoing is proven (Page 14, Clause 2 & 4). Example: In 2021, the Tamil Nadu government took control of the Nataraja Temple in Chidambaram citing irregularities. This action faced backlash from the Dikshithars, the traditional custodians of the temple, who claimed it was an unjustified takeover . Non-Hindus Managing Temples: Non-Hindus, including the Chief Minister and state HR&CE officials, can manage temples despite not practicing Hinduism (Page 20, Sec 6-7a; Page 21, Sec 6-23). Example: In 2017, controversy arose when it was revealed that non-Hindu officials were involved in the management of several temples in Tamil Nadu, leading to protests by Hindu groups demanding that only practicing Hindus should hold such positions . 2. Fund Management and Financial Control Payments to HR&CE Officials: The Act mandates that salaries and pensions of HR&CE officials be the first expenditure from temple funds, questioning the secularism of such a provision (Page 23, Sec 12). Example: In 2021, it was reported that significant funds from the Madurai Meenakshi Temple were being used to pay HR&CE officials' salaries, diverting resources away from temple maintenance and services . Asset Mismanagement: There are numerous issues with how temple assets are managed, including missing asset registers, undervaluation of leases, and questionable audit practices (Page 18, Sec 17; Page 35, Sec 29; Page 41, Sec 34-A). Example: The Hindu reported in 2020 about the undervaluation of temple properties leased at rates far below market value, particularly concerning lands belonging to the Tiruchendur Murugan Temple . 3. Vagueness and Ambiguity Undefined Terms: Key terms like 'professing Hindu religion' and 'acting in public interest' are not clearly defined, leading to potential misuse (Vagueness of Terms section). Example: An article in The Times of India highlighted the ambiguity of the term 'public interest' being used to justify the removal of trustees from the Kapaleeswarar Temple in Chennai without clear evidence of wrongdoing . 4. Temple Services and Personnel Stifling Temple Services: The Commissioner has the power to limit spending on temple services such as salaries for archakas (priests) and annadanam (free food distribution), citing financial reasons (Page 66, Sec 61). Example: In 2022, the HR&CE department's decision to cut down on annadanam services at the Palani Murugan Temple due to 'financial constraints' was heavily criticized by devotees, leading to protests . Appointment and Dismissal of Archakas: The Act allows the appointment of archakas by the HR&CE and their dismissal by trustees for vague reasons such as 'disobedience of orders' (Page 61, Sec 55; Page 62, Sec 56). Example: The dismissal of an archaka from the Meenakshi Amman Temple in Madurai in 2018, allegedly for disobedience, sparked a debate on the arbitrary use of this provision . 5. Trustees and Governance Trustee Appointments: The criteria for becoming a trustee are minimal, leading to potential mismanagement. Trustees must merely declare faith in Hinduism without any mechanism to verify their adherence (Page 32, Sec 25-A; Page 33, Sec 26-i-1A). Example: In 2020, it was reported that several trustees appointed to the Srirangam Ranganathaswamy Temple had minimal experience in temple administration, leading to administrative inefficiencies . Board of Trustees: The government can appoint a significant portion of the board of trustees, potentially undermining the autonomy of the temple administration (Page 52, Sec 47). Example: The appointment of politically affiliated individuals to the board of trustees of the Srirangam Temple in 2021 raised concerns about political interference in temple affairs . 6. Asset Management Issues Asset Registers: There are inconsistencies in the maintenance and publication of asset registers, leading to mismanagement and loss of temple properties (Page 35, Sec 29-D & E). Example: The Deccan Chronicle reported in 2019 that several valuable assets of the Madurai Meenakshi Temple were not properly recorded, resulting in losses and mismanagement . Leasing Issues: The Act allows for the leasing of temple properties at undervalued rates and provides insufficient mechanisms for lease recovery (Page 42, Sec 34-B; Page 39, Sec 34). Example: In 2018, a major controversy erupted when it was discovered that prime land belonging to the Kumbakonam Temples as well as Agastheeswara Prasanna Venkatesa Perumal temple at Nungambakkam was leased at extremely low rates to private parties, leading to significant revenue losses . Conclusion The TN HR&CE Act, while intended to regulate and manage Hindu temples and charitable institutions, has several provisions that lead to government overreach, mismanagement, and potential misuse of temple funds and assets. These issues highlight the need for a thorough review and amendment of the Act to ensure transparency, accountability, and respect for religious autonomy. The call to #FreeTNTemples reflects a growing demand for reforms to protect the interests of Hindu temples and their devotees.[..]

Humidity

How manuscripts used to be preserved : https://drperumal.wordpress.com/2013/05/10/indigenous-methods-of-conservation/ https://drperumal.wordpress.com/2013/05/10/indigenous-method... https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/03400352221103899 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/03400352221103... I have been to a few museums and libraries where the palmyra manuscripts and texts are still preserved. They should remain with people who value them instead of handing them over to the govt. In our home library, we lost so many books where the pages were so brittle that they would break like biscuits. But the religious palm leaf scripts that have been in the family for generations were well preserved as they were wrapped in cloth. We also had some inscriptions on copper plates or some other kind of alloy metal. They were at the altar in the prayer room and kept submerged in water always. I don’t know what language it was but it was none of the known modern languages. Even today., in the deep south, there are palm leaf astrologers whose lineage have owned Nadi astrology palm leaf manuscripts that is supposed to relate everything about you life and past lives including when you will visit the astrologer. There are some authentic lineages. The text is written in Vatteluttu and script knowledge is passed down lineages only https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatteluttu https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatteluttu Nadi astrology https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadi_astrology https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadi_astrology

dr_dshiv 2y ago
“…also requires knowledge of genuine Nādi texts, most of which are unpublished, and the custodians do not allow others to see the manuscripts. The same is the case with Samhitā texts in north India, such as Bhrigu Samhitā or Rāvana Samhitā.”

ceejayoz 2y ago

Is there reason to believe temples in India haven't experienced humidity in the last 2,000 years?

NoRagrets 2y ago
They used to be sealed. HR&CE is the govt arm that is controlling Hindu Temples. It is infiltrated by anti Hindu interests who have been selling temple artifacts and manuscripts by smuggling them out of the country for hundreds of thousands of dollars.. many have been taken out of the humidity controlled vaults built by the Kings. They have been drilling and building within temple stone walls that are hundreds of years old and installing ceilings fans and lights. Here are just a few of the recent HR&CE crimes : https://x.com/joshigargigoyal/status/1806747391917511165 https://x.com/joshigargigoyal/status/1806747391917511165 And this: https://x.com/joshigargigoyal/status/1807105132087452000 https://x.com/joshigargigoyal/status/1807105132087452000
- sharpshadow 2y ago
  Your comments here confirm my suspicion about the way the Indian government is handling the Hindu past. Sometimes I watch the YT channel of Praveen Mohan who is visiting ancient temples of the area and has difficulties to understand the dating of those, which the Indian government has a hand on and does not allow any other point of view. There is a strong likelihood that some of the those temples are much older than the date there given.
  - jelliclesfarm 2y ago
    Praveen Mohan is a YouTube influencer. He is hardly an authority on anything except bad takes.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  A more reputable source than a Twitter screenshot of an unknown, uncited news source would be worthwhile here.
  - jelliclesfarm 2y ago
    The tweets literally quotes the problematic issues with the HRCE Act. Which part do you find ‘not reputable’ source of facts? [..] The Tamil Nadu HR&CE Act The Tamil Nadu Hindu Religious and Charitable Endowments (HR&CE) Act has been a point of contention due to various issues highlighted by critics. Lets see some significant problems associated with the Act and its implementation, with actual examples from newspapers in Tamil Nadu. 1. Control Over Temples Government Control: The Act allows the government to take control of any Hindu temple under the pretext of 'a reason to believe' there has been an irregularity, even if no actual wrongdoing is proven (Page 14, Clause 2 & 4). Example: In 2021, the Tamil Nadu government took control of the Nataraja Temple in Chidambaram citing irregularities. This action faced backlash from the Dikshithars, the traditional custodians of the temple, who claimed it was an unjustified takeover . Non-Hindus Managing Temples: Non-Hindus, including the Chief Minister and state HR&CE officials, can manage temples despite not practicing Hinduism (Page 20, Sec 6-7a; Page 21, Sec 6-23). Example: In 2017, controversy arose when it was revealed that non-Hindu officials were involved in the management of several temples in Tamil Nadu, leading to protests by Hindu groups demanding that only practicing Hindus should hold such positions . 2. Fund Management and Financial Control Payments to HR&CE Officials: The Act mandates that salaries and pensions of HR&CE officials be the first expenditure from temple funds, questioning the secularism of such a provision (Page 23, Sec 12). Example: In 2021, it was reported that significant funds from the Madurai Meenakshi Temple were being used to pay HR&CE officials' salaries, diverting resources away from temple maintenance and services . Asset Mismanagement: There are numerous issues with how temple assets are managed, including missing asset registers, undervaluation of leases, and questionable audit practices (Page 18, Sec 17; Page 35, Sec 29; Page 41, Sec 34-A). Example: The Hindu reported in 2020 about the undervaluation of temple properties leased at rates far below market value, particularly concerning lands belonging to the Tiruchendur Murugan Temple . 3. Vagueness and Ambiguity Undefined Terms: Key terms like 'professing Hindu religion' and 'acting in public interest' are not clearly defined, leading to potential misuse (Vagueness of Terms section). Example: An article in The Times of India highlighted the ambiguity of the term 'public interest' being used to justify the removal of trustees from the Kapaleeswarar Temple in Chennai without clear evidence of wrongdoing . 4. Temple Services and Personnel Stifling Temple Services: The Commissioner has the power to limit spending on temple services such as salaries for archakas (priests) and annadanam (free food distribution), citing financial reasons (Page 66, Sec 61). Example: In 2022, the HR&CE department's decision to cut down on annadanam services at the Palani Murugan Temple due to 'financial constraints' was heavily criticized by devotees, leading to protests . Appointment and Dismissal of Archakas: The Act allows the appointment of archakas by the HR&CE and their dismissal by trustees for vague reasons such as 'disobedience of orders' (Page 61, Sec 55; Page 62, Sec 56). Example: The dismissal of an archaka from the Meenakshi Amman Temple in Madurai in 2018, allegedly for disobedience, sparked a debate on the arbitrary use of this provision . 5. Trustees and Governance Trustee Appointments: The criteria for becoming a trustee are minimal, leading to potential mismanagement. Trustees must merely declare faith in Hinduism without any mechanism to verify their adherence (Page 32, Sec 25-A; Page 33, Sec 26-i-1A). Example: In 2020, it was reported that several trustees appointed to the Srirangam Ranganathaswamy Temple had minimal experience in temple administration, leading to administrative inefficiencies . Board of Trustees: The government can appoint a significant portion of the board of trustees, potentially undermining the autonomy of the temple administration (Page 52, Sec 47). Example: The appointment of politically affiliated individuals to the board of trustees of the Srirangam Temple in 2021 raised concerns about political interference in temple affairs . 6. Asset Management Issues Asset Registers: There are inconsistencies in the maintenance and publication of asset registers, leading to mismanagement and loss of temple properties (Page 35, Sec 29-D & E). Example: The Deccan Chronicle reported in 2019 that several valuable assets of the Madurai Meenakshi Temple were not properly recorded, resulting in losses and mismanagement . Leasing Issues: The Act allows for the leasing of temple properties at undervalued rates and provides insufficient mechanisms for lease recovery (Page 42, Sec 34-B; Page 39, Sec 34). Example: In 2018, a major controversy erupted when it was discovered that prime land belonging to the Kumbakonam Temples as well as Agastheeswara Prasanna Venkatesa Perumal temple at Nungambakkam was leased at extremely low rates to private parties, leading to significant revenue losses . Conclusion The TN HR&CE Act, while intended to regulate and manage Hindu temples and charitable institutions, has several provisions that lead to government overreach, mismanagement, and potential misuse of temple funds and assets. These issues highlight the need for a thorough review and amendment of the Act to ensure transparency, accountability, and respect for religious autonomy. The call to #FreeTNTemples reflects a growing demand for reforms to protect the interests of Hindu temples and their devotees.[..]