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Common sense - 0 . Globalization - +1 It's as if the pandemic and supply chain issues never happened. When I see things like this (i.e., an intentional disrega

Common sense - 0 . Globalization - +1 It's as if the pandemic and supply chain issues never happened. When I see things like this (i.e., an intentional disregard for common sense) I have to wonder if it's all just theatre. In this case, aside from the dependency on an unfriendly adversary for growing food, the also the possibility - however small - that enemy bio-engineeers something, adds it to the fertilizer, and it either kills the crops or at least compromises their yield. Why would you risk your future in this way? Unless you didn't care? It can't be for lack of knowing.

gus_massa 2y ago
Imported stuff get's analyzed for involuntary accidental contamination. So they must add something really unusual to pass the checks.
h0l0cube 2y ago
A warring state isn't really a trusty partner in globalization, especially when they're in direct geopolitical opposition (i.e., most countries in Europe have no interest in Russia testing its boundaries). Globalization, thus far, has been a useful way to secure global peace by mutual interest, but the Russian leadership has no interest in globalization
- protomolecule 2y ago
  >the Russian leadership has no interest in globalization That's factually incorrect. [0][1] [0] https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/from-lisbon-to-vladivostok-putin-envisions-a-russia-eu-free-trade-zone-a-731109.html https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/from-lisbon-to-v... [1] https://pure.iiasa.ac.at/id/eprint/16150/ https://pure.iiasa.ac.at/id/eprint/16150/
  - h0l0cube 2y ago
    The starting of a war with allies is in contradiction with a desire to improve trade ties. If you remember, Nordstream, a product of trade freedom, was a point of leverage at the outset (until it wasn't). Hardly in the spirit of globalization. The idea that Russia wants a congenial and cooperative relationship, is laughable, not just due to the war, but also actions like poisoning political leaders. But I do agree that greater trade freedom for Russia would be good for Russia either way, but globalization has coded in it the gestalt of geopolitical stability — not what the current Russian leadership wants.
    - protomolecule 2y ago
      With which allies? I fail to understand you right from the beginning.
      - h0l0cube 2y ago
        You don't think Ukraine is allied with western Europe? The assassination attempt on Yuschenko was clearly trying to remove the western-friendly democratically elected president of Ukraine. The people of Ukraine, by majority, are overwhelmingly interested in being closer to the west, though their interest in NATO has only been recent. That interest has been reciprocated broadly by Europe and by the EU, much to the displeasure of Russia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yushchenko#TCDD_poisoning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yushchenko#TCDD_poisoni... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93NATO_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93NATO_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93European_Union_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93European_Union...
        protomolecule 2y ago
        So why plural? And no, it's been over two years and no other country has joined the fight. Your link related to Yushchenko says that he was allegedly poisoned by three Ukrainians. "The people of Ukraine, by majority" That glosses over the division between Western and Eastern Ukraine. Majority of people of Crimea, Donetsk and Luhask regions were against the association with the EU as your own link says. "are overwhelmingly interested in being closer to the west" When faced with the either/or question. The majority was for having good relations with both Russia and the EU. Here is what Merkel's Vice Chancellor Sigmar Gabriel said at the time: "Certainly, the European Union has also made mistakes, although this does not justify Russia's behavior," Gabriel told the German daily Rheinische Post. "It was certainly not smart to create the impression in Ukraine that it had to decide between Russia and the EU," the Economy Minister added. "But again: That was not and is not a justification to plunge a country into chaos." [0] That "mistake" doesn't look to me like a desire for congenial and cooperative relationship with Russia. [0] https://www.newsweek.com/german-official-says-it-was-wrong-make-ukraine-pick-between-eu-and-russia-251038 https://www.newsweek.com/german-official-says-it-was-wrong-m...
RecycledEle 2y ago
> Why would you risk your future in this way? If your competitor can cut costs this year by using cheap Russian fertilizer, and you do not, the you may not be in business to see the downside of buying from a country your government does not like.
- chiefalchemist 2y ago
  As a matter of national sec you prohibit the importing of it
  - RecycledEle 2y ago
    Prohibiting importation means your farmers are at a disadvantage compared to the farmers in the country next door. Will you now outlaw food imports from countries that accept Russian fertilizer? If you do so, will you outlaw food imports from countries that ban direct importation of Russian fertilizer, but are lax on enforcement when ships registries are faked and when fertilizer goes through other nations?
    - protomolecule 2y ago
      Yes to all the questions. The US and the EU have weaponized global trade and financial systems in their hybrid war against Russia and much of the trust in global trade that existed in the world is gone. Now everyone is wary of their partners abusing the system. Russia made the mistake of embracing globalization and now is paying heavy price for that when supplies of many critical Western goods are cut by sanctions.
      - mopsi 2y ago
        Russia never embraced globalization. Right from the start in 1991, it tried to use energy deliveries and punitive trade tariffs as tools to manipulate former USSR countries into submission or punish them in revenge, regularly causing crises as Russian dignitaries made statements in the style of "you'll crawl back to use once your 'independence' fails". This continued throughout the 1990s and 2000s. Needless to say, this strategy spectacularly failed because it severed economic ties, alienated everyone from Russia, and made the EU a more attractive partner due to its reliability and political stability, ultimately leading to most of Eastern Europe joining the EU. The war in Ukraine is a chapter in that story. A pathetic attempt by Russia to stop one of the last countries in Europe from joining the EU, out of delusion that with a population and GDP of Mexico, it deserves an empire and global influence, and has a right to bully neighbors - resulting in total isolation, with only international pariahs like Iran and North Korea left as allies. The mistake that Russia made was not embracing globalization, but embracing a sad little dictator from the depths of KGB, who has failed to use the system of global trade to ensure prosperity for its citizens and an equal say in global affairs because he is too dumb for that. If you do not own a superyacht, then you're just another dummy who has fallen under his spell and given away everything for nothing in return. You can't even go out and complain, because his cronies will rape you in a police van. How did it all go so wrong?
matthewdgreen 2y ago
The famous (apocryphal) phrase is “the capitalists will sell us the rope with which we hang them” although I guess it also applies to buying things as well.
- protomolecule 2y ago
  It's identical here in Russia. Hardliners are criticizing selling anything to the West including fertilizers.

gus_massa 2y ago

Imported stuff get's analyzed for involuntary accidental contamination. So they must add something really unusual to pass the checks.

h0l0cube 2y ago

A warring state isn't really a trusty partner in globalization, especially when they're in direct geopolitical opposition (i.e., most countries in Europe have no interest in Russia testing its boundaries). Globalization, thus far, has been a useful way to secure global peace by mutual interest, but the Russian leadership has no interest in globalization

protomolecule 2y ago
>the Russian leadership has no interest in globalization That's factually incorrect. [0][1] [0] https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/from-lisbon-to-vladivostok-putin-envisions-a-russia-eu-free-trade-zone-a-731109.html https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/from-lisbon-to-v... [1] https://pure.iiasa.ac.at/id/eprint/16150/ https://pure.iiasa.ac.at/id/eprint/16150/
- h0l0cube 2y ago
  The starting of a war with allies is in contradiction with a desire to improve trade ties. If you remember, Nordstream, a product of trade freedom, was a point of leverage at the outset (until it wasn't). Hardly in the spirit of globalization. The idea that Russia wants a congenial and cooperative relationship, is laughable, not just due to the war, but also actions like poisoning political leaders. But I do agree that greater trade freedom for Russia would be good for Russia either way, but globalization has coded in it the gestalt of geopolitical stability — not what the current Russian leadership wants.
  - protomolecule 2y ago
    With which allies? I fail to understand you right from the beginning.
    - h0l0cube 2y ago
      You don't think Ukraine is allied with western Europe? The assassination attempt on Yuschenko was clearly trying to remove the western-friendly democratically elected president of Ukraine. The people of Ukraine, by majority, are overwhelmingly interested in being closer to the west, though their interest in NATO has only been recent. That interest has been reciprocated broadly by Europe and by the EU, much to the displeasure of Russia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yushchenko#TCDD_poisoning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yushchenko#TCDD_poisoni... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93NATO_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93NATO_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93European_Union_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93European_Union...
      - protomolecule 2y ago
        So why plural? And no, it's been over two years and no other country has joined the fight. Your link related to Yushchenko says that he was allegedly poisoned by three Ukrainians. "The people of Ukraine, by majority" That glosses over the division between Western and Eastern Ukraine. Majority of people of Crimea, Donetsk and Luhask regions were against the association with the EU as your own link says. "are overwhelmingly interested in being closer to the west" When faced with the either/or question. The majority was for having good relations with both Russia and the EU. Here is what Merkel's Vice Chancellor Sigmar Gabriel said at the time: "Certainly, the European Union has also made mistakes, although this does not justify Russia's behavior," Gabriel told the German daily Rheinische Post. "It was certainly not smart to create the impression in Ukraine that it had to decide between Russia and the EU," the Economy Minister added. "But again: That was not and is not a justification to plunge a country into chaos." [0] That "mistake" doesn't look to me like a desire for congenial and cooperative relationship with Russia. [0] https://www.newsweek.com/german-official-says-it-was-wrong-make-ukraine-pick-between-eu-and-russia-251038 https://www.newsweek.com/german-official-says-it-was-wrong-m...

RecycledEle 2y ago

> Why would you risk your future in this way? If your competitor can cut costs this year by using cheap Russian fertilizer, and you do not, the you may not be in business to see the downside of buying from a country your government does not like.

chiefalchemist 2y ago
As a matter of national sec you prohibit the importing of it
- RecycledEle 2y ago
  Prohibiting importation means your farmers are at a disadvantage compared to the farmers in the country next door. Will you now outlaw food imports from countries that accept Russian fertilizer? If you do so, will you outlaw food imports from countries that ban direct importation of Russian fertilizer, but are lax on enforcement when ships registries are faked and when fertilizer goes through other nations?
  - protomolecule 2y ago
    Yes to all the questions. The US and the EU have weaponized global trade and financial systems in their hybrid war against Russia and much of the trust in global trade that existed in the world is gone. Now everyone is wary of their partners abusing the system. Russia made the mistake of embracing globalization and now is paying heavy price for that when supplies of many critical Western goods are cut by sanctions.
    - mopsi 2y ago
      Russia never embraced globalization. Right from the start in 1991, it tried to use energy deliveries and punitive trade tariffs as tools to manipulate former USSR countries into submission or punish them in revenge, regularly causing crises as Russian dignitaries made statements in the style of "you'll crawl back to use once your 'independence' fails". This continued throughout the 1990s and 2000s. Needless to say, this strategy spectacularly failed because it severed economic ties, alienated everyone from Russia, and made the EU a more attractive partner due to its reliability and political stability, ultimately leading to most of Eastern Europe joining the EU. The war in Ukraine is a chapter in that story. A pathetic attempt by Russia to stop one of the last countries in Europe from joining the EU, out of delusion that with a population and GDP of Mexico, it deserves an empire and global influence, and has a right to bully neighbors - resulting in total isolation, with only international pariahs like Iran and North Korea left as allies. The mistake that Russia made was not embracing globalization, but embracing a sad little dictator from the depths of KGB, who has failed to use the system of global trade to ensure prosperity for its citizens and an equal say in global affairs because he is too dumb for that. If you do not own a superyacht, then you're just another dummy who has fallen under his spell and given away everything for nothing in return. You can't even go out and complain, because his cronies will rape you in a police van. How did it all go so wrong?

matthewdgreen 2y ago

The famous (apocryphal) phrase is “the capitalists will sell us the rope with which we hang them” although I guess it also applies to buying things as well.

protomolecule 2y ago
It's identical here in Russia. Hardliners are criticizing selling anything to the West including fertilizers.