9 ms·

Volkswagen Willing to Pay $1B Just to Look at Rivian's Software

12 points by Corrado 2y ago

WhereIsTheTruth 2y ago
Sounds like someone at Volkswagen is getting blackmailed This article for sure sounds like FUD
- gruturo 2y ago
  The substance of the article is true but yes it's sprinkled with debatably subjective opinions and comments and links to an identically-toned article (https://www.autoevolution.com/news/volkswagen-lost-the-ev-revolution-and-is-bracing-for-another-defeat-in-the-software-arena-234088.html https://www.autoevolution.com/news/volkswagen-lost-the-ev-re...) by the same author. Same picture on top, just titled "Epic fail!" instead of "Desperate". I don't know whether it's a strategy to attract eyeballs or the author just hates VAG. Despite the style though, the core message is not wrong.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
rychco 2y ago
> Volkswagen benefits from Rivian's expertise in developing and producing software-defined vehicles What is wrong with current Volkswagen cars that this is so desirable? What is the benefit for consumers?
- gruturo 2y ago
  Let me hazard a guess - not specific to Volkswagen: Awful, slow, buggy, unresponsive, unergonomical, poorly-integrated, occasionally dangerous software, including the user interface, produced by a company culture that just won't change as it just doesn't see value in this, therefore either outsources it to the lowest bidder or mismanage it internally. There's a reason Android Auto and Carplay are selling points.
  - SAI_Peregrinus 2y ago
    Anything developed using AUTOSAR is going to be awful shit. No competent programmer will willingly get within 10 feet of an AUTOSAR job posting if they've ever had to suffer through using it, and all the old ICE manufacturers standardized on AUTOSAR. They can't retain good programmers, and they can't hire programmers who have experienced their shit before, so they're left with naive newbies or overpriced contractors whose only goal is to milk the company for as many billable hours as possible.
  - constantcrying 2y ago
    >produced by a company culture that just won't change as it just doesn't see value in this I don't think that is the real problem. The issue is that Volkswagen has always been a hardware company and you can not make hardware like you do software. Fast iterations are not possible in hardware, so you need a careful long iterative process to fix previous problems and produce improved designs. Implementing a software process into this can only lead to disaster. They also know that this is a major problem, which is why they founded Cariad to develop software, but that got burdened by the same problems. Also: compared to the US, software engineering is payed terrible in the EU. If you are writing software you don't get payed more than an engineer.
  - tibbydudeza 2y ago
    During the ICE era VW bought head units from Blaupunkt and Fuel Injection systems from Bosch and A/C systems from Delphi no need for a real software culture just integration expertise. With EV's it is different ball game where software is a differentiator thanks to Telsa and the type of customers (techies) who are early adopters.
- constantcrying 2y ago
  >What is wrong with current Volkswagen cars that this is so desirable? Terrible problems with software. VW even founded it's own software company, but apparently that didn't work out to well.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
kkfx 2y ago
Automotive is one of the many field heavily dependent on software and unable to create anything good in that. That's a good example of why we damn need to change the IT landscape for a future society... FLOSS MUST BE BY LAW, we can't accept a modern society of black boxes and this allow for collaborative development witch anyone own it's own while all other can cherry pick creating a fast enough, stable enough, safe enough stream of innovation. Another part is electronic witch we are still champion but many industries who need electronics are TERRIBLE at it. Again open hw is mandatory to create evolvable architecture for any field. We can't accept things like a car briked because parked in at a certain steepness and for some reasons a crapware update fails under that condition, overnight, without any human owner control. Similarly we can't accept safety features like ADAS being tied to car infotainment just because the automaker bought some ancient SoC and tablets for that purpose not knowing what to do otherwise. FLOSS prove to be a technical success, a business failure. It's time to make it the norm so business can compete in hw not in selling services. Of course it's terribly hard but if back then at Xerox this happen it can happen again, recreating some relevant conditions like public fund for public FLOSS projects, created to serve the people not some private parties and used by any private party for commerce. This allow for a balance between the private sector needs and the public allow freedom of innovation and reducing certain level of crap for all.
- almatabata 2y ago
  They had some opensource initiatives like Genivi, now Covesa see: * https://github.com/GENIVI https://github.com/GENIVI * https://github.com/COVESA https://github.com/COVESA * https://www.automotivelinux.org/ https://www.automotivelinux.org/ If you have worked on automotive projects you know they follow some kind of standards like DLT for diagnostics and logging or at least they used to. A lot of it has moved to Android Automotive now. * https://source.android.com/docs/automotive/start/what_automotive https://source.android.com/docs/automotive/start/what_automo...
  - RealityVoid 2y ago
    Speaking of open source AUTOSAR, there was also aarcore, that was promptly bought by Vector and they closed the implementation. https://www.eenewseurope.com/en/vector-swallows-swedish-software-company-arccore/ https://www.eenewseurope.com/en/vector-swallows-swedish-soft...

12 points by Corrado 2y ago

WhereIsTheTruth 2y ago

Sounds like someone at Volkswagen is getting blackmailed This article for sure sounds like FUD

gruturo 2y ago
The substance of the article is true but yes it's sprinkled with debatably subjective opinions and comments and links to an identically-toned article (https://www.autoevolution.com/news/volkswagen-lost-the-ev-revolution-and-is-bracing-for-another-defeat-in-the-software-arena-234088.html https://www.autoevolution.com/news/volkswagen-lost-the-ev-re...) by the same author. Same picture on top, just titled "Epic fail!" instead of "Desperate". I don't know whether it's a strategy to attract eyeballs or the author just hates VAG. Despite the style though, the core message is not wrong.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

rychco 2y ago

> Volkswagen benefits from Rivian's expertise in developing and producing software-defined vehicles What is wrong with current Volkswagen cars that this is so desirable? What is the benefit for consumers?

gruturo 2y ago
Let me hazard a guess - not specific to Volkswagen: Awful, slow, buggy, unresponsive, unergonomical, poorly-integrated, occasionally dangerous software, including the user interface, produced by a company culture that just won't change as it just doesn't see value in this, therefore either outsources it to the lowest bidder or mismanage it internally. There's a reason Android Auto and Carplay are selling points.
- SAI_Peregrinus 2y ago
  Anything developed using AUTOSAR is going to be awful shit. No competent programmer will willingly get within 10 feet of an AUTOSAR job posting if they've ever had to suffer through using it, and all the old ICE manufacturers standardized on AUTOSAR. They can't retain good programmers, and they can't hire programmers who have experienced their shit before, so they're left with naive newbies or overpriced contractors whose only goal is to milk the company for as many billable hours as possible.
- constantcrying 2y ago
  >produced by a company culture that just won't change as it just doesn't see value in this I don't think that is the real problem. The issue is that Volkswagen has always been a hardware company and you can not make hardware like you do software. Fast iterations are not possible in hardware, so you need a careful long iterative process to fix previous problems and produce improved designs. Implementing a software process into this can only lead to disaster. They also know that this is a major problem, which is why they founded Cariad to develop software, but that got burdened by the same problems. Also: compared to the US, software engineering is payed terrible in the EU. If you are writing software you don't get payed more than an engineer.
- tibbydudeza 2y ago
  During the ICE era VW bought head units from Blaupunkt and Fuel Injection systems from Bosch and A/C systems from Delphi no need for a real software culture just integration expertise. With EV's it is different ball game where software is a differentiator thanks to Telsa and the type of customers (techies) who are early adopters.
constantcrying 2y ago
>What is wrong with current Volkswagen cars that this is so desirable? Terrible problems with software. VW even founded it's own software company, but apparently that didn't work out to well.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

kkfx 2y ago

Automotive is one of the many field heavily dependent on software and unable to create anything good in that. That's a good example of why we damn need to change the IT landscape for a future society... FLOSS MUST BE BY LAW, we can't accept a modern society of black boxes and this allow for collaborative development witch anyone own it's own while all other can cherry pick creating a fast enough, stable enough, safe enough stream of innovation. Another part is electronic witch we are still champion but many industries who need electronics are TERRIBLE at it. Again open hw is mandatory to create evolvable architecture for any field. We can't accept things like a car briked because parked in at a certain steepness and for some reasons a crapware update fails under that condition, overnight, without any human owner control. Similarly we can't accept safety features like ADAS being tied to car infotainment just because the automaker bought some ancient SoC and tablets for that purpose not knowing what to do otherwise. FLOSS prove to be a technical success, a business failure. It's time to make it the norm so business can compete in hw not in selling services. Of course it's terribly hard but if back then at Xerox this happen it can happen again, recreating some relevant conditions like public fund for public FLOSS projects, created to serve the people not some private parties and used by any private party for commerce. This allow for a balance between the private sector needs and the public allow freedom of innovation and reducing certain level of crap for all.

almatabata 2y ago
They had some opensource initiatives like Genivi, now Covesa see: * https://github.com/GENIVI https://github.com/GENIVI * https://github.com/COVESA https://github.com/COVESA * https://www.automotivelinux.org/ https://www.automotivelinux.org/ If you have worked on automotive projects you know they follow some kind of standards like DLT for diagnostics and logging or at least they used to. A lot of it has moved to Android Automotive now. * https://source.android.com/docs/automotive/start/what_automotive https://source.android.com/docs/automotive/start/what_automo...
- RealityVoid 2y ago
  Speaking of open source AUTOSAR, there was also aarcore, that was promptly bought by Vector and they closed the implementation. https://www.eenewseurope.com/en/vector-swallows-swedish-software-company-arccore/ https://www.eenewseurope.com/en/vector-swallows-swedish-soft...