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I'd tell them I am not shutting up and this is a major problem affecting the quality of the product. I would then speak to the boss's boss about it and start co

I'd tell them I am not shutting up and this is a major problem affecting the quality of the product. I would then speak to the boss's boss about it and start complaining about the boss doing a poor job, encouraging fake, meaningless metrics to game the system. Maybe they'll get get fed up and tell you to GTFO. Probably not though. The thing about broken organizations is that they take forever to fire anyone, so use that to your advantage while you look for other jobs.

sgarland 2y ago
> The thing about broken organizations is that they take forever to fire anyone, so use that to your advantage while you look for other jobs. My last place was horrendously broken in many aspects, and fired people at the drop of a hat.
999900000999 2y ago
That seems like a whole lot of work, compared to just finding another job and walking out . I'm not trying to change the world, I'm trying to make money so I can save and retire preferably before I turn 50. If I've learned anything about life is that you need to pick what battles you want to fight. If option A is argue with numerous people and openly expose multiple layers of incompetence, to the point where my manager and my coworkers are going to hate me . Compared to, option B , keeping my head down until I can jump ship and then hoping the next place isn't as bad. I'm picking B. You gain nothing by going above and beyond your pay grade.
- icedchai 2y ago
  I mean, if you don't care about the company, product, or project, then yes, you are right. Lay low and move on. Some fights definitely aren't worth it. If you do care about more than your paycheck, maybe it is. And do you really care if some incompetent hates you? I hate working with incompetent people, so some mutual feelings are perfectly fine. It may even improve the situation, at least temporarily: They'll reduce their interactions with you to avoid conflict, since most people are rather conflict avoidant.
  - recursive 2y ago
    Bad impressions can be contagious. Some "incompetents" have political capital.
    - mlhpdx 2y ago
      IMHO labeling people “incompetent” is a bright orange flag. Sometimes it is true, but far more often it’s a genuine lack of respect.
      - 999900000999 2y ago
        >function1(){ ApiCall("1") } >function2(){ ApiCall("2) } Quoting from earlier in the thread, see this and tell me the person writing it is competent. The polite way to put it is "there might be a skill mismatch". Plenty of people get slowly drifted into programming roles they aren't qualified for. At the end of the day, I'm not some super hero looking to drastically improve every company I work for. It's fine to walk out if your not vibing with your co workers. Always say it's about money, you never know who you'll see again.
        recursive 2y ago
        For me, that's not enough. There could be reasons to write code like that. Maybe a function reference is needed for `function1` so it can be passed as a callback. Maybe it's given a meaningful name rather than "function1".
        mlhpdx 2y ago
        > Quoting from earlier in the thread, see this and tell me the person writing it is competent. I can't, nor could I make any sprawling generality about them based on secondhand quips. > The polite way to put it is "there might be a skill mismatch". More than polite, it may be practical. Perhaps this person is vastly skilled in some other way and importantly valuable if applied to that work. > Plenty of people get slowly drifted into programming roles they aren't qualified for. Like me. I'm unqualified in many ways having no formal education in CS. Yet I've created around 1,000 jobs so far. I've taught CS and lectured on it in college programs. I'm pretty sure you'd consider me incompetent if we met, because we seem to see the world and this work very differently. > At the end of the day, I'm not some super hero looking to drastically improve every company I work for. I don't consider it super heroic to simply do your work in good faith, interact professionally with respect for other humans, and strive to leave the world (and every part of it you touch) no worse, if not better. That's just basics. > It's fine to walk out if your not vibing with your co workers. Always say it's about money, you never know who you'll see again. Yes, absolutely, change roles when it seems the right choice. That is freedom I wish everyone had, and felt safe in, and no guilt for. Pursue happiness. Even saying it's about money I can't argue with unless doing so obscures some other fact that harms other people.

sgarland 2y ago

> The thing about broken organizations is that they take forever to fire anyone, so use that to your advantage while you look for other jobs. My last place was horrendously broken in many aspects, and fired people at the drop of a hat.

999900000999 2y ago

That seems like a whole lot of work, compared to just finding another job and walking out . I'm not trying to change the world, I'm trying to make money so I can save and retire preferably before I turn 50. If I've learned anything about life is that you need to pick what battles you want to fight. If option A is argue with numerous people and openly expose multiple layers of incompetence, to the point where my manager and my coworkers are going to hate me . Compared to, option B , keeping my head down until I can jump ship and then hoping the next place isn't as bad. I'm picking B. You gain nothing by going above and beyond your pay grade.

icedchai 2y ago
I mean, if you don't care about the company, product, or project, then yes, you are right. Lay low and move on. Some fights definitely aren't worth it. If you do care about more than your paycheck, maybe it is. And do you really care if some incompetent hates you? I hate working with incompetent people, so some mutual feelings are perfectly fine. It may even improve the situation, at least temporarily: They'll reduce their interactions with you to avoid conflict, since most people are rather conflict avoidant.
- recursive 2y ago
  Bad impressions can be contagious. Some "incompetents" have political capital.
  - mlhpdx 2y ago
    IMHO labeling people “incompetent” is a bright orange flag. Sometimes it is true, but far more often it’s a genuine lack of respect.
    - 999900000999 2y ago
      >function1(){ ApiCall("1") } >function2(){ ApiCall("2) } Quoting from earlier in the thread, see this and tell me the person writing it is competent. The polite way to put it is "there might be a skill mismatch". Plenty of people get slowly drifted into programming roles they aren't qualified for. At the end of the day, I'm not some super hero looking to drastically improve every company I work for. It's fine to walk out if your not vibing with your co workers. Always say it's about money, you never know who you'll see again.
      - recursive 2y ago
        For me, that's not enough. There could be reasons to write code like that. Maybe a function reference is needed for `function1` so it can be passed as a callback. Maybe it's given a meaningful name rather than "function1".
      - mlhpdx 2y ago
        > Quoting from earlier in the thread, see this and tell me the person writing it is competent. I can't, nor could I make any sprawling generality about them based on secondhand quips. > The polite way to put it is "there might be a skill mismatch". More than polite, it may be practical. Perhaps this person is vastly skilled in some other way and importantly valuable if applied to that work. > Plenty of people get slowly drifted into programming roles they aren't qualified for. Like me. I'm unqualified in many ways having no formal education in CS. Yet I've created around 1,000 jobs so far. I've taught CS and lectured on it in college programs. I'm pretty sure you'd consider me incompetent if we met, because we seem to see the world and this work very differently. > At the end of the day, I'm not some super hero looking to drastically improve every company I work for. I don't consider it super heroic to simply do your work in good faith, interact professionally with respect for other humans, and strive to leave the world (and every part of it you touch) no worse, if not better. That's just basics. > It's fine to walk out if your not vibing with your co workers. Always say it's about money, you never know who you'll see again. Yes, absolutely, change roles when it seems the right choice. That is freedom I wish everyone had, and felt safe in, and no guilt for. Pursue happiness. Even saying it's about money I can't argue with unless doing so obscures some other fact that harms other people.