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"Networking seems to drive career advancement." I come to this realization too. The world is not a meritocracy like we are taught as children. In my case, I h

"Networking seems to drive career advancement." I come to this realization too. The world is not a meritocracy like we are taught as children. In my case, I have a disability that makes networking difficult and feel immoral to me. Frankly, any company spouting DEI and still supporting networking is hypocritical.

kingkongjaffa 2y ago
> feel immoral > any company spouting DEI and still supporting networking is hypocritical Not to take anything away from your personal situation, but this is a self-defeating mindset to have. People, i.e. social humans in companies, are WIRED to seek out known quantities. Networking and having someone vouch for you is not some scheme to subvert some utopian idea of meritocracy, but really an evolutionary social dynamic response. We pick people like us, we pick people we like, we pick people who can improve the group, we pick people who can do things for the group. (having your own strong network is also something you can bring to the group in the form of more referrals, and potentially new clients etc.) Which is also why alumni networks are a thing. There's no trick, and networking doesn't need to be sleazy, and it isn't immoral. Be likable, reach out to people, ask them for help, offer to help them. Ironically, and arguably, the biggest threat to this is LinkedIn which lets people build a huge network that is only puddle deep. Those 1000 connections on linkedin are worth less than 5 deep connections you've had coffee chats or lunch with in your same city and same industry.
- giantg2 2y ago
  "We pick people like us, we pick people we like," This is exactly the type of bias that marginalizes people like me. "There's no trick, and networking doesn't need to be sleazy, and it isn't immoral." It doesn't need to be, but it overwhelmingly ends up that way. It often completely cuts out anyone from the outgroup or unknown, even if they are deserving candidates. It leads to wasted effort from candidates when the person being picked is essentially a forgone conclusion. I've had friends offer to open a posting for me for a promotion in the company. These sort of backroom deals are wrong. "but really an evolutionary social dynamic response." Just because something is evolutionary doesn't make it right. Insider trading is essentially the same thing, but for securities, yet that's illegal.
  - kingkongjaffa 2y ago
    > Just because something is evolutionary doesn't make it right. True, but you’re not going to be able change it either via evolution or culture change, so rather than make excuses and complain you might as well try to understand the best you can and figure out path that works for you within an unfair and unaccommodating system. Back on topic Regarding OP, the book “never eat alone” is a great way to learn this stuff and anyone wanting to improve tactics and mindset for networking should read it.
    - giantg2 2y ago
      I don't know about that. Isn’t the whole point of DEI to undo evolution that results in tribal organization, stereotyping, etc?
      - threeseed 2y ago
        DEI is about being inclusive. The very thing you are wanting from this world. And not sure what exactly you keep implying by using words like similar, tribal organisation, stereotyping etc. But humans form relationships around many things that have nothing to do with gender, race etc. For example sports, hobbies, work etc.
        giantg2 2y ago
        "For example sports, hobbies, work etc." So you think culture, hobbies, etc, can't form biases?
threeseed 2y ago
> spouting DEI and still supporting networking is hypocritical Networking is simply about building relationships with people. This is a skill you will need in order to make it through the interview process and make yourself likeable to the hiring manager and the team. To conflate it with DEI which is all about inclusion is pretty low.
- giantg2 2y ago
  "and make yourself likeable" "To conflate it with DEI which is all about inclusion is pretty low." The need to make yourself likeable disadvantages groups that may not be similar to the hiring manager. It definitely provides bias against nuerodivergent people. So no, I'm not conflating DEI and networking. There is an easily identifiable link between the bias inherent in networking and it's impact on DEI.
  - threeseed 2y ago
    So in your ridiculous world you have to be "similar" to someone to be likeable. And please provide some evidence of this link between networking and DEI.
    - giantg2 2y ago
      Reread my comments with an open mind and empathy. It's nice you think my world is ridiculous, but I guess the world is ridiculous for most disabled people.
- moneywoes 2y ago
  > building relationships with people I was told r.e. networking this is basically doing things for people and not expecting anything in return? Have done this often ( e.g. writing/reviewing resumes, finding job posts, sharing mutual connections who are hiring) and have received nothing in return. Not sure if I'm missing anything
  - kayodelycaon 2y ago
dash2 2y ago
When you say "disability", what do you mean exactly? Is it a specific disease, or do you just mean "I find networking difficult, and it feels immoral"?
- giantg2 2y ago
  I'm nuerodivergent. Being likeable and similar to hiring managers is not something that most nuerodivergent people are able to do at the same level as most "normal" people.
  - throwthrowuknow 2y ago
    Maybe become friends with people similar to you in the industry you work in and they can let you know when there are open positions and put in a good word for you? Networking doesn’t mean being friends with HR or hiring managers, it just means getting your foot in the door via an acquaintance since someone saying “I know this person” can put you ahead of other random applicants.
  - dash2 2y ago
    Diagnosed by a doctor? I'm terribly sorry, but this just sounds like a long word for "I find it hard to be likeable". So do I, but I don't think of it as a disability: it's a part of my character, which to a reasonable degree I consider worth trying to change. I also notice that your sympathy for yourself is not matched by an equal tolerance for other people. "Just because something is evolutionary doesn't make it right," you say of the fact that other people like people who try to be nice. You then compare it to insider trading. Gosh... seems like the rest of the human race are terrible people!
    - em-bee 2y ago
      for me the main factor that makes someone likeable is how nice they are to or how much they like me and others. so i see someone display a dislike to others or to me, then i won't like them either.
    - giantg2 2y ago
booleandilemma 2y ago
Having a moral compass is not a disability, even though modern society likes to make it seem that way.
- giantg2 2y ago
  No, but some types of nuerodivergent people have an overwhelming sense of justice. That would be something related to a disability.

kingkongjaffa 2y ago

> feel immoral > any company spouting DEI and still supporting networking is hypocritical Not to take anything away from your personal situation, but this is a self-defeating mindset to have. People, i.e. social humans in companies, are WIRED to seek out known quantities. Networking and having someone vouch for you is not some scheme to subvert some utopian idea of meritocracy, but really an evolutionary social dynamic response. We pick people like us, we pick people we like, we pick people who can improve the group, we pick people who can do things for the group. (having your own strong network is also something you can bring to the group in the form of more referrals, and potentially new clients etc.) Which is also why alumni networks are a thing. There's no trick, and networking doesn't need to be sleazy, and it isn't immoral. Be likable, reach out to people, ask them for help, offer to help them. Ironically, and arguably, the biggest threat to this is LinkedIn which lets people build a huge network that is only puddle deep. Those 1000 connections on linkedin are worth less than 5 deep connections you've had coffee chats or lunch with in your same city and same industry.

giantg2 2y ago
"We pick people like us, we pick people we like," This is exactly the type of bias that marginalizes people like me. "There's no trick, and networking doesn't need to be sleazy, and it isn't immoral." It doesn't need to be, but it overwhelmingly ends up that way. It often completely cuts out anyone from the outgroup or unknown, even if they are deserving candidates. It leads to wasted effort from candidates when the person being picked is essentially a forgone conclusion. I've had friends offer to open a posting for me for a promotion in the company. These sort of backroom deals are wrong. "but really an evolutionary social dynamic response." Just because something is evolutionary doesn't make it right. Insider trading is essentially the same thing, but for securities, yet that's illegal.
- kingkongjaffa 2y ago
  > Just because something is evolutionary doesn't make it right. True, but you’re not going to be able change it either via evolution or culture change, so rather than make excuses and complain you might as well try to understand the best you can and figure out path that works for you within an unfair and unaccommodating system. Back on topic Regarding OP, the book “never eat alone” is a great way to learn this stuff and anyone wanting to improve tactics and mindset for networking should read it.
  - giantg2 2y ago
    I don't know about that. Isn’t the whole point of DEI to undo evolution that results in tribal organization, stereotyping, etc?
    - threeseed 2y ago
      DEI is about being inclusive. The very thing you are wanting from this world. And not sure what exactly you keep implying by using words like similar, tribal organisation, stereotyping etc. But humans form relationships around many things that have nothing to do with gender, race etc. For example sports, hobbies, work etc.
      - giantg2 2y ago
        "For example sports, hobbies, work etc." So you think culture, hobbies, etc, can't form biases?

threeseed 2y ago

> spouting DEI and still supporting networking is hypocritical Networking is simply about building relationships with people. This is a skill you will need in order to make it through the interview process and make yourself likeable to the hiring manager and the team. To conflate it with DEI which is all about inclusion is pretty low.

giantg2 2y ago
"and make yourself likeable" "To conflate it with DEI which is all about inclusion is pretty low." The need to make yourself likeable disadvantages groups that may not be similar to the hiring manager. It definitely provides bias against nuerodivergent people. So no, I'm not conflating DEI and networking. There is an easily identifiable link between the bias inherent in networking and it's impact on DEI.
- threeseed 2y ago
  So in your ridiculous world you have to be "similar" to someone to be likeable. And please provide some evidence of this link between networking and DEI.
  - giantg2 2y ago
    Reread my comments with an open mind and empathy. It's nice you think my world is ridiculous, but I guess the world is ridiculous for most disabled people.
moneywoes 2y ago
> building relationships with people I was told r.e. networking this is basically doing things for people and not expecting anything in return? Have done this often ( e.g. writing/reviewing resumes, finding job posts, sharing mutual connections who are hiring) and have received nothing in return. Not sure if I'm missing anything
- kayodelycaon 2y ago

dash2 2y ago

When you say "disability", what do you mean exactly? Is it a specific disease, or do you just mean "I find networking difficult, and it feels immoral"?

giantg2 2y ago
I'm nuerodivergent. Being likeable and similar to hiring managers is not something that most nuerodivergent people are able to do at the same level as most "normal" people.
- throwthrowuknow 2y ago
  Maybe become friends with people similar to you in the industry you work in and they can let you know when there are open positions and put in a good word for you? Networking doesn’t mean being friends with HR or hiring managers, it just means getting your foot in the door via an acquaintance since someone saying “I know this person” can put you ahead of other random applicants.
- dash2 2y ago
  Diagnosed by a doctor? I'm terribly sorry, but this just sounds like a long word for "I find it hard to be likeable". So do I, but I don't think of it as a disability: it's a part of my character, which to a reasonable degree I consider worth trying to change. I also notice that your sympathy for yourself is not matched by an equal tolerance for other people. "Just because something is evolutionary doesn't make it right," you say of the fact that other people like people who try to be nice. You then compare it to insider trading. Gosh... seems like the rest of the human race are terrible people!
  - em-bee 2y ago
    for me the main factor that makes someone likeable is how nice they are to or how much they like me and others. so i see someone display a dislike to others or to me, then i won't like them either.
  - giantg2 2y ago

booleandilemma 2y ago

Having a moral compass is not a disability, even though modern society likes to make it seem that way.

giantg2 2y ago
No, but some types of nuerodivergent people have an overwhelming sense of justice. That would be something related to a disability.