5 ms·

Excellent essay! Really loved it. For Finnegan's Wake - I find it's best to open it up at random and shout it out as you pace around. Maybe peer at yourself no

Excellent essay! Really loved it. For Finnegan's Wake - I find it's best to open it up at random and shout it out as you pace around. Maybe peer at yourself now and again in a mirror. If you can work it up to a roar, then you'll really be flying, but it'd depend on what you had for breakfast.

matrix87 2y ago
Right when you're starting to think it's just nonsense, you catch some hint that there might be some sense behind it And it sucks because sometimes I really just want to write it up as nonsense and put it down, but is seems like there is some kind of system there
robwwilliams 2y ago
Loved the essay and this practical and funny approach to the Finnegian dreamscape. For me it will be back to Dubliners—should not have skipped it.
mordechai9000 2y ago
The Wake didn't really click with me until I heard the recording of Joyce reading the episode with the two washerwomen. I realized the references, puns, and in-jokes are basically just bonus material for me. It's the dream images and the sound of the words that engage me and make me want to learn about the rest of it. I wish we had a recording of him reading it cover to cover.
Loughla 2y ago
All joking aside, there is a lot of literature that really needs to be spoken to be grasped. I learned this in college taking a middle English literature course. The Canterbury tales really need to be read out loud. They have a cadence that needs to be spoken. I would actually argue that Joyce is in the same category. His work isn't meant to be internal. It's storytelling in a group and meant to be spoken. It helps understand the DENSE writing.
- sourcepluck 2y ago
  I wasn't joking at all (but if I had been I'd nonetheless be very tempted now to refuse to put it aside).
- suzzer99 2y ago
  A lot of literature and pretty much all poetry imo.
- dataphyte 2y ago
  So many (snooty) people treat audiobooks like a cheap substitute for reading, when in reality, reading is the cheap substitute for oral storytelling. Sure, you've got Infinite Jest where page structure and end notes are part of the aesthetic design, but I think more people would consume more literature if audiobooks were more normalized.
  - sourcepluck 2y ago
    Audiobooks are a cheap excuse for oral storytelling. People listen to audiobooks as they sculpt their muscles in the gym, as they walk to the shop to get groceries averting the eyes of all strangers who pass by, as they fold laundry, alone. Oral storytelling used to happen in small intimate groups around fires with a couple of lamps lit, total silence, wind howling, drinks and sometimes other delights, with no conceivable distractions. Even saying "no distractions" isn't accurate, as it was moreso the case that they'd a completely different conception of time. The stories would be told live by another human, with their voice and body and eyes looking at you. Reading is different than oral storytelling - it doesn't pretend to be the same thing, at least not anymore. Creating a hierarchy between the three is, I find, a bit odd, in general.
  - complaintdept 2y ago
    Most literature we have today was written with a reader in mind, not a listener. I don't even think audiobooks are necessarily bad, it's people consuming them like a hamburger while they multitask so they aren't even really engaging with the text. Let alone not really having the ability to stop, think and relisten very easily. With a text you do it basically automatically if necessary, with an audiobook you've got to fumble around for your device and hope you get back to the right spot and not break your train of thought in the process.

matrix87 2y ago

Right when you're starting to think it's just nonsense, you catch some hint that there might be some sense behind it And it sucks because sometimes I really just want to write it up as nonsense and put it down, but is seems like there is some kind of system there

robwwilliams 2y ago

Loved the essay and this practical and funny approach to the Finnegian dreamscape. For me it will be back to Dubliners—should not have skipped it.

mordechai9000 2y ago

The Wake didn't really click with me until I heard the recording of Joyce reading the episode with the two washerwomen. I realized the references, puns, and in-jokes are basically just bonus material for me. It's the dream images and the sound of the words that engage me and make me want to learn about the rest of it. I wish we had a recording of him reading it cover to cover.

Loughla 2y ago

All joking aside, there is a lot of literature that really needs to be spoken to be grasped. I learned this in college taking a middle English literature course. The Canterbury tales really need to be read out loud. They have a cadence that needs to be spoken. I would actually argue that Joyce is in the same category. His work isn't meant to be internal. It's storytelling in a group and meant to be spoken. It helps understand the DENSE writing.

sourcepluck 2y ago
I wasn't joking at all (but if I had been I'd nonetheless be very tempted now to refuse to put it aside).
suzzer99 2y ago
A lot of literature and pretty much all poetry imo.
dataphyte 2y ago
So many (snooty) people treat audiobooks like a cheap substitute for reading, when in reality, reading is the cheap substitute for oral storytelling. Sure, you've got Infinite Jest where page structure and end notes are part of the aesthetic design, but I think more people would consume more literature if audiobooks were more normalized.
- sourcepluck 2y ago
  Audiobooks are a cheap excuse for oral storytelling. People listen to audiobooks as they sculpt their muscles in the gym, as they walk to the shop to get groceries averting the eyes of all strangers who pass by, as they fold laundry, alone. Oral storytelling used to happen in small intimate groups around fires with a couple of lamps lit, total silence, wind howling, drinks and sometimes other delights, with no conceivable distractions. Even saying "no distractions" isn't accurate, as it was moreso the case that they'd a completely different conception of time. The stories would be told live by another human, with their voice and body and eyes looking at you. Reading is different than oral storytelling - it doesn't pretend to be the same thing, at least not anymore. Creating a hierarchy between the three is, I find, a bit odd, in general.
- complaintdept 2y ago
  Most literature we have today was written with a reader in mind, not a listener. I don't even think audiobooks are necessarily bad, it's people consuming them like a hamburger while they multitask so they aren't even really engaging with the text. Let alone not really having the ability to stop, think and relisten very easily. With a text you do it basically automatically if necessary, with an audiobook you've got to fumble around for your device and hope you get back to the right spot and not break your train of thought in the process.