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How does precedent about how commercial is interpeted here apply? If I use this to fire off a work email, is that commercial? Or does this only apply if I'm sel

How does precedent about how commercial is interpeted here apply? If I use this to fire off a work email, is that commercial? Or does this only apply if I'm selling a product built around this?

josephcsible 2y ago
My reading of the license is that if you use it to type any text for work, you're in violation.
- threwawasy1228 2y ago
  I think that is a ridiculously incorrect and bad faith interpretation of the license clauses.
  - josephcsible 2y ago
    How so? Given that the license says you can't "use" it for commercial purposes, as opposed to just that you can't modify or distribute it for commercial purposes, what else would that mean?
    - ohmyiv 2y ago
      It means you can't sell it/make a profit from it. There's a legal definition of "commercial purposes": https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/uscode.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=18-USC-538810865-105758365&term_occur=999&term_src= https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/uscode.php?width=840...
      - mkl 2y ago
        That's a legal definition of "used for commercial purposes" for vehicles: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/31 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/31, https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-2 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-2
      - avhon1 2y ago
        Isn't performing paid work activities with a keyboard application profiting from using the keyboard?
        ohmyiv 2y ago
        Are you selling and profiting from the keyboard software _as a product_? No, you're not. Say I take the keyboard software/app _itself_, rebadge it as ohmykeyboard, then sell it for profit. I would be violating the license in that case. Just typing with it and using it on a regular basis doesn't violate that part of the license.
- alex-futo 2y ago
  I'm the person responsible for this project and this is absolutely not correct. The clause was not written to restrict this kind of use of the keyboard, and it would be ridiculous if we ever pursued anyone over this. You can type anything you want with our keyboard. You can type out a million-dollar app that competes with us. It's not like we would have any way of knowing, because the keyboard doesn't connect to the internet. That clause is more intended for a situation where, for example, a phone manufacturer wants to include our app as a default option. That is the kind of commercial use we would prefer to negotiate and sign a special agreement for.
  - josephcsible 2y ago
    I trust you that it's not what you meant, and that you wouldn't sue over it, but not that any potential future copyright holder wouldn't (see, e.g., https://gavinhoward.com/2022/01/the-law-of-strict-licenses/ https://gavinhoward.com/2022/01/the-law-of-strict-licenses/). Could you make it less ambiguous by chasing the license to only restrict commercial distribution rather than commercial use?
  - borgbean 2y ago
    I believe you, but the text seems pretty unambiguous: > You may use or modify the software only for non-commercial purposes When one speaks of 'using' software, only one thing really comes to mind. Seems like an easy fix.
  - thrtythreeforty 2y ago
    You have discovered why licenses are hard! The text of this license conflicts with your intent. Wrote this comment with FUTO and it's pretty nice; it's certainly the first one I'm considering using over Gboard (because frankly the feature set of many FOSS keyboards is quite bad). While not FOSS, FUTO is a nice step up in terms of philosophy and actual license from most proprietary keyboards, with the exception of the commercial use restriction which really made me think twice about it.
  - cge 2y ago
    While it was not your intention for the license to be interpreted in that way, as written, reading the text, it does seem like the most obvious interpretation. There are also other source-available licenses where it is the intended interpretation: while niche, I'm reminded of the license on nupack.org. It seems like clarifying this in the license text would be a good idea.
MatthiasPortzel 2y ago
You better pay a lawyer for a consultation to answer that question in accordance with your risk tolerance.

How does precedent about how commercial is interpeted here apply? If I use this to fire off a work email, is that commercial? Or does this only apply if I'm selling a product built around this?

josephcsible 2y ago

My reading of the license is that if you use it to type any text for work, you're in violation.

threwawasy1228 2y ago
I think that is a ridiculously incorrect and bad faith interpretation of the license clauses.
- josephcsible 2y ago
  How so? Given that the license says you can't "use" it for commercial purposes, as opposed to just that you can't modify or distribute it for commercial purposes, what else would that mean?
  - ohmyiv 2y ago
    It means you can't sell it/make a profit from it. There's a legal definition of "commercial purposes": https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/uscode.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=18-USC-538810865-105758365&term_occur=999&term_src= https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/uscode.php?width=840...
    - mkl 2y ago
      That's a legal definition of "used for commercial purposes" for vehicles: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/31 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/31, https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-2 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-2
    - avhon1 2y ago
      Isn't performing paid work activities with a keyboard application profiting from using the keyboard?
      - ohmyiv 2y ago
        Are you selling and profiting from the keyboard software _as a product_? No, you're not. Say I take the keyboard software/app _itself_, rebadge it as ohmykeyboard, then sell it for profit. I would be violating the license in that case. Just typing with it and using it on a regular basis doesn't violate that part of the license.
alex-futo 2y ago
I'm the person responsible for this project and this is absolutely not correct. The clause was not written to restrict this kind of use of the keyboard, and it would be ridiculous if we ever pursued anyone over this. You can type anything you want with our keyboard. You can type out a million-dollar app that competes with us. It's not like we would have any way of knowing, because the keyboard doesn't connect to the internet. That clause is more intended for a situation where, for example, a phone manufacturer wants to include our app as a default option. That is the kind of commercial use we would prefer to negotiate and sign a special agreement for.
- josephcsible 2y ago
  I trust you that it's not what you meant, and that you wouldn't sue over it, but not that any potential future copyright holder wouldn't (see, e.g., https://gavinhoward.com/2022/01/the-law-of-strict-licenses/ https://gavinhoward.com/2022/01/the-law-of-strict-licenses/). Could you make it less ambiguous by chasing the license to only restrict commercial distribution rather than commercial use?
- borgbean 2y ago
  I believe you, but the text seems pretty unambiguous: > You may use or modify the software only for non-commercial purposes When one speaks of 'using' software, only one thing really comes to mind. Seems like an easy fix.
- thrtythreeforty 2y ago
  You have discovered why licenses are hard! The text of this license conflicts with your intent. Wrote this comment with FUTO and it's pretty nice; it's certainly the first one I'm considering using over Gboard (because frankly the feature set of many FOSS keyboards is quite bad). While not FOSS, FUTO is a nice step up in terms of philosophy and actual license from most proprietary keyboards, with the exception of the commercial use restriction which really made me think twice about it.
- cge 2y ago
  While it was not your intention for the license to be interpreted in that way, as written, reading the text, it does seem like the most obvious interpretation. There are also other source-available licenses where it is the intended interpretation: while niche, I'm reminded of the license on nupack.org. It seems like clarifying this in the license text would be a good idea.

MatthiasPortzel 2y ago

You better pay a lawyer for a consultation to answer that question in accordance with your risk tolerance.